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MJM's progress thread

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empyr3al

@molly78, I'm not sure HALT is AA or where it originated.  I have a big book and therefore could check.  I use CHALT Cold, hungry, angry, lonely, tired ;)  Now its summer so somewhere I would have to add Hot.  Bloody heck where I live it goes to -30 to +30 average, often more over seasons. I find eating all over helps but it sure help keep the acid down so you are not choking in the morning if you suffer allergies or are a smoker.  Nice way to clear the throat too if you eat the right stuff.  Finding I like shreaded cabbage and carrot mix recently to clear it all.

Edited by empyr3al
typo

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MJM

Well, I am drunk again. Will i ever learn?

I have realised, al too late, that everything I have written here is quite obviously me to anyone I know who stumbles across it. Oh well, perhaps they will learn something new about me. Not that I would want them to.

I have a fresh script for mirtazapine, which I shall fill tomorrow. I have been depressed.

In fact, I have lived a life of mostly black and white for some time. There has not been much joy in my life.

Here's the thing.... is it because I'm old (51) that I have not much interest in anything? I don't have any great passion for stuff that I usually do. Even a nice sunrise (I usually get up early when sober... not tomorrow, clearly) gives me a thrill. Not for a long time now.

I don't get much joy out of anything anymore. I am starting to wonder why I am here.

I don't know why moderators don't shunt this thread elsewhere. They should. Self-centred as ever, I started this thread under 'General Discussions'. WTF?

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Nicnak

I feel the same about life,that's why I drink as it makes even watching tv more interesting.

But when I was indifferent last year life was good and I was satisfied with things as they were.Hoping indifference will come back soon.I lost 3.5 stone but have put back in 1.5.

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Molly78
4 hours ago, MJM said:

I have a fresh script for mirtazapine, which I shall fill tomorrow. I have been depressed

Indeed your post is virtually diagnostic of depression.  Anhedonia (no joy in anything) is the main symptom.  I am pleased you have a script for mirtazepine.  Not only will it help your depression it has been suggested by others on this forum that it significantly reduces alcoholic cravings.

Hope you feel better very soon.

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StuckinLA

Sorry about the depression. Yeah, it really sucks. I don't have anything positive to add, just hope you feel better soon.

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empyr3al

@MJM@MJM Mirt saved my life.  Unfortunate part is you sleep a lot.  It will make you eat at all the wrong times.  Seriously I hope it changes your life. Doc said to split the pills.  So because it makes you sleepy choose your portions wisely.  Take a 45 and use a pill cutter until you find the right space.  For sleep its crazy (12 hours at 45mg), but as a smoker it is affected therefore the pill cuts to give me some relief later in the day, as well as an appetite.  Lets see its nearly 10pm so I will take 15mg and split the rest of the 45 over the day (Never use it all, likely 30mg).  Seems to work if I don't put myself in risky situations.  Even then I could care less about ALC.  I've tried a variety of pharma and some are better than others.  Remeron (Mirtazapine) is not promoted because its out of patent, but wow it does work if you suffer depression.  Of note mirt wont do a damn thing about your drink, but you will drink less.  I have a list, stay away from b/trinellix and pristiq.

Edited by empyr3al
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MJM

Well, it's a new day, the hang-over isn't too bad. I have been reading about Mirtazapine SEs, and now I'm not sure I want to go there. I already get really sleepy at night due to Bac and have dropped a few kg after getting off Effexor last year. To become even more sleepy is not what I want and I need to try to keep the weight down. Even though I'm a bit leeary about BMI, I'm borderline obese according to that.

What I don't want of course is to suffer depression. What to do? I have already started exercise, but it's not enough really - maybe 15-20 min on the exercise bike every few days. I want to try L-glutamine (I think that's what it's called) because it helps with mood. I have tried St John's Wort recently, it was useless.

I noticed that my mood dropped in the days following the realisation that my wife's drinking isn't getting any better. It kind of chipped away at me I think to the point that I couldn't get my work done yesterday and the thought of maybe doing something 'fun' wasn't all that interesting either.

We go on holiday as a family in 2.5 weeks, for a month. My wife has promised me that she will stop drinking then. God I hope so. My son told me a few days ago that he doesn't like his mum drinking because her personality changes. It's a fairly astute observation for an 11 year-old.

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empyr3al

@MJMI didn't take my mirt as planned. so I woke up again a couple hours later (now at 1:30am).  For some the SE's of Mirt do benefits as in my case.  Increase of weight was a goal and learning to eat.  You can use mirt as you please and my levels vary from 15 to 45, 45 is insanely high.  Now I will take back what I said about it does nothing for alcohol because its shown to reduce intake, and has for me.  I have never tried effexor, so I can't compare.  While using these pharma I stay away from  supplements and I'm afraid of Serotonin shock syndrome.  If you try L-G let me know how it affects you.  Try Mirt in small doses maybe?

Recent studies have shown that excessive exercise is not necessarily beneficial.  General activity does, like a bike ride, mowing the lawn so long as its not a trigger.

Its a high expectation for a drinker to stop in 2 weeks without detox, which can be done in 72 hours depending on the severity.

My 9 year old step daughter could tell when i would start drinking again.  The immature mind say it means you don't love them.  Though you do.  Depression is a f'er.

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MJM

Well I caved in and filled my 30my Mirtazapine script yesterday. I had already got the script filled, but yesterday wasn't a good day for me, lost a client and so in total I've lost almost half my annual income in the last three months. None to do with the quality of my work, just that they have decided to insource, if that's even a word.

Then a credit card application was declined. I have actually reduced my cc debt a lot, and was down to one card, which I wanted to balance transfer because the new card has a much lower interest rate. The bank said that I was 'over-committed'. This morning I applied for my credit rating to see what the hell is going on. 

Took half a Mirt tablet at 8.30 last night (15mg), turned off the light at about 9.30. As usual, I was reading a book and the Bac makes me sleepy (I take 3x25mg am, 2x25mg pm).

Yet I woke feeling panicky a couple times, and half asleep I went to get something to eat. Ate half a pack of corn chips. Slept like a log, woke up later than usual. Felt groggy. Yelled at my daughter, who was screaming at me to take her to the train station because she was running late. I felt really angry.

Now I just feel terrible for shouting at her. I woke my son with a start and he was a bit frightened by it.

The groggyness has dissapated. I had thoughts of driving into oncoming trucks this morning, although not like I wanted to do it or in anyway felt suicidal. It was just a thought, but that I was even thinking that scares me. I don't know if Mirt is going to work for me.

 

 

 

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Nicnak

Scary stuff mjm.I don't know anything about mirt but I would say give it a few days to settle down.

The thoughts about driving into a truck can be a form of OCD and although you don't feel suicidal I would really keep an eye on that 

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empyr3al

Mirt is nothing compared to trazadone.  Trazadone will mess with you for the first 30 minutes of consciousness and language doesn't make sense and the chaos is insane and you can't make answers because time makes no sense which is hard when you manage your families waking schedule.  Mirt is a little less painful in that regard.  Have tea made and freaking nuke it even if its stale and put on a new pot.  I suffer from an ability to hear everything so its over whelming when too many senses are hit at the same time.  My wife touching me would throw me way out of wack and that is not okay, because I loved her.  Now I might add if i was not understress and wanted to be close, morning sex for man is probably the best.  There are articles about it in Mens Health.  Stress like my dog licking my toes on the toilet are a little much.  So it does go down in SE's.  Talking to my specialist today, he said don't be bouncing it up and down and just take it straight forward and it will take some time (a week or two).

Now he also gave me gabapentin which really I'm afraid to touch more than what I already am using.  He wants me off valium.  (Nalt, Mirt, Vitamins and the odd valium).

Edited by empyr3al
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StuckinLA

I used to have thoughts like that all the time, still do on occasion especially in subway stations. It's not that I want to jump in front of a train or yank the steering wheel, but the thought of "but what if I *did*" is sometimes very strong. Just because it's there and it is a momentary action that cannot be taken back. Something to keep an eye on but not worry too much about, in my opinion. You know best, I'm sure.

Sorry about the sleep and the irritability. I have that too sometimes, the waking in panic. Eating junk food immediately upon waking with a start really helps, as does smoking. Not sure if you're a smoker. Either way, it sucks. Hang in there.

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MJM

It's been a while since I posted last...

I've been overseas on holiday with my family for the best part of a month. Lots of ups and downs but we made it. Some really enjoyable moments and some... well, not so much.

I got drunk twice and had a few drinks here and there while away. Nothing of note, except as I have said before, I want to stay stopped as my goal. It is usually my sense of hopelessness, wanting to escape low feelings, that trigger a drinking episode (well blow me down :)). They are always much briefer episodes and the AL has less effect than before Bac.

I got really sick with a chest infection when o/s and the short story is that I don't seem to be smoking cigarettes anymore. So not a thing left to escape my feelings with now, really...

I don't know if being on ADs reduce that chances of getting colds etc, but this winter has been by far my worst for years (and first winter w/o ADs for 7 years). I have has something like 4-5 colds. I have been taking heaps of Vit C powder; sometimes it seemed to help ward off an imminent cold, other times it clearly did not.

I am trying Mirtazapine again, because I have been feeling pretty flat. Either that or getting into rage with the kids, yelling at them (or my wife).

Those odd side-effects I had last time have not reoccurred. The ony thing is that I must be clenching my jaw whan asleep, because my jaw muscles are sore in the morning. I also will sleep a lot if in bed - at first it was jet-lag but as it continues, I'm pretty sure it's a side-effect of the Mirtazapine.

I have been more hungry than usual and so have to watch it there (a Mirtazapine SE is weight gain). Part of the problem is that I have been inactive and feeling jet-lagged/sleepy. About to go for a long walk, and have be cycling a bit too. Hoping that exercise and trying to delay satisfying the hunger pangs will work

I'm only on day 4 at 1/2 a 30mg tab per day, and so far my mood seems a bit flatter if anything. I don't feel all that happy to be back home and am not all that interested in doing much. It might still be partly the process of adjusting my body time clock after a month of being on the other side of the world though. Hoping the Mirtazapine will take effect soon and won't give up on it if it's doing nothing until seeing my GP on the 30th (who might say hang in there a bit longer anyway).

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empyr3al

Mirtazapine has been my life saver.  MJM I hope it works out as well for you.  And yes mirt is a weight gainer and a reason why I was given it, I am hungry all the time. I was way underweight from drinking straight vodka for 2 weeks. Uhm Im not sure about your benefits but I have a mouth type guard so I don't grind.  They cost roughly 400$ CAD

Cycling.  I have a Giant 29er if you know what that is.  Beautiful bike if you are into all terrain.  The issue I have with it because the wheels are 29 inch is that if I hit a curb I blow a tire.  That sucks when you are at a distance.  We have amazing trails here so its got many miles but looks like new.  My ex wifes bike was offered to be purchased on the spot on one of our first rides.  We bought the best mountain type bikes.  A 29er is more of a road bike.  I'll take a photo of it shortly.

Sorry you drank, honestly.

Edited by empyr3al

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Molly78
22 hours ago, MJM said:

I don't know if being on ADs reduce that chances of getting colds etc, but this winter has been by far my worst for years (and first winter w/o ADs for 7 years). I have has something like 4-5 colds. I have been taking heaps of Vit C powder; sometimes it seemed to help ward off an imminent cold, other times it clearly did not.

Not sure about ADs helping with colds.  Except maybe having depression lowers your immunity?  Try vit D rather than Vit C & take it all the time.  Most of us pale people who live in the northern hemisphere are short on Vit D.  Perhaps since you poor sods in the USA have to pay for your health care, you can get your doc to do vit D levels.  GPs in the UK won't do them routinely.  I was on steroids for a year & because of my age (risk of osteoporosis) I was prescribed Adcal (vit D + Ca).  For that entire year i didn't have a single cold - unheard of for me!  I stopped taking it once I was off the steroids & low & behold, got a bad cold a few months later - right in the middle of summer.  I spend lots of time outside in summer so my vit D levels should have been max right then.

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MJM

So I got royally drunk last Sunday, from lunchtime. We had friends over for lunch and I made an arse of myself.

I had dropped down from 125mg to 75mg of Bac per day when ill overseas. I didn't do it intentionally at first, I was just so sick that I forgot to take my 50mg evening dose. Once I was at 75mg I thought I'd be okay. Obviously not. Now titrating up, currently at 100mg and that seems to be enough to hold off cravings.

I have been a week on half-dose and 3 days full dose of Mirt (30mg). I feel a bit calmer but still depressed. I hope it lifts soon because I'm sick of it.

I have been exercising fairly reguarly, so the weight gain from taking Mirt seems to have halted. I am hungry more than I was. I'm hoping to slowly reduce my weight, but will live with how I am if it means my mood lifts. I don't think losing weight and taking Mirt have to be mutually exclusive, but I need my mood to lift first I think.

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empyr3al

@MJM

If you are aware of the hell I just put myself through, one slip won't kill you.  Full blown relapse at 40oz of vodka a day for just over a week leaves a lasting effect both physically and psychologically.  So don't beat yourself up to badly over a slip; take it for what its worth.  I have forgiven myself because there is no point in rehashing what I did.  The only people fortunately I emotionally hurt where my father and mother.  Now I do things normally and its amazing how much they appreciate it.  It has taken me a week to come back to normal using some unusual techniques described in depth on MWO in mostly Cattleman's Cafe and my own thread in Need help ASAP.  I was afraid to take any drugs other than valium while I was recovering and I probably should have immediately started my mirt again and everything else.  In hind sight I'm better now and lesson learned (again).  When I drink my temper tends to flare, not violently, but I get hostile and start telling people what they are doing wrong in my opinion.  Essentially I become an Ahole and start yelling at objects including my poor dog and lose my cool when things don't go right.  Its refreshing to get back to normal :)

Not sure what you mean an arse of yourself, but I'm guessing its saying foolish things?  Yeah rewinding is hard.

I carry a tray that is individual to the day, so i grab it in the morning and it has 4 slots and I use an app called Medisafe to remind me as it shakes and won't let up until I silence it.  That would help you not miss a dose.  Just a tip if you can find a high quality tray that has daily parts to carry your dose so you have it with you and use a reminder app.  I do recommend Medisafe.  With medisafe you can tell it what dose and how much you just took so you can actually see your progress..

Medisafe on Android I beta test so this url may not make sense but you can find it.  You will need register or log in to read this content  Its available on iPhone also if thats what you use and if you want the beta I think its called Testflight, no url because I don't use itunes at all.

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MJM

So I lasted just over 3 weeks on Mirt (1 week 15mg/day titrating up, 1 week full dose 30mg, then 1 week titrating down 15mg).

I probably didn't give it long enough but it had zero effect on my mood. Got sort muscles from clenching my jaw when asleep and was sleepy a lot of the time. These SEs were too much.

At least at 100mg Bac (75mg am, 25 pm) I haven't had cravings since I last drank.

My depression continues though. I've been getting on my exercise bike for 30min every two days, doing a bit of interval training. Last week for the firsst time in ages I did something really good with my work and I felt really happy. Pit of the stomach happy. That hasn't happened for a long time.

It didn't last. By yesterday I was anxious, depressed I really felt bad. Not suicidal, but started crying. I'm not sleeping well, which is a first for me - ever since taking Bac I'd zonk out.

 I see my Dr today and I'll have to ask her for medication options for my depression. Seeing a psychologist, trying to cut the depression cycle by thinking and exercise just doesn't seem to be cutting it.

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Nicnak

@MJM

I feel for you I really do x

This disease or whatever it is sucks.When my kids were small I could hide it from them but they are 18 and 21 and know what’s been going on for years.I know they love me but they have no respect for me.

My younger son is quite reclusive but my older son is a typical 21 year old and although he doesn’t drink daily at all he’s like your usual binge drinker but when I try to explain the heredity side of AUD he refuses to listen.I wish I had never picked up a glass:(

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Mom2JTx3

@MJM  I’m so sorry to hear. :(  I have many regrets about the time I spent drunk while raising my kids.

There isn’t really anything you can do to make your wife change. If she does become violent, you may have to take steps to protect yourself and your children.  My thoughts are with you.

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Molly78

No words of wisdom, just wanted to offer sympathy and moral support in your sad situation

4 hours ago, MJM said:

It's like I have wanted Baclofen to weave its magic, without me doing anything. it doesn't work like that. 

That seems to be the problem with waiting for the "switch" - you feel you can just go on drinking until suddenly you don't want to.  A more proactive approach is to stop drinking first, you can then titrate up faster on the bac, and each day will be more bearable than the one before.  Just a thought.

 

4 hours ago, Nicnak said:

My younger son is quite reclusive but my older son is a typical 21 year old and although he doesn’t drink daily at all he’s like your usual binge drinker but when I try to explain the heredity side of AUD he refuses to listen.

I have been dealing with the fallout this Christmas of a binge-drinker son who reached rock bottom and was actively suicidal.  My guilt that he inherited the problem from me knows no bounds.  He does at least understand that it's a disease, and he has an appointment with a psychiatrist next week via his private health insurance (he is a lawyer in a city firm and the health insurance comes with the job).  I shall be interested to hear what the psychiatrist has to say.

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Mom2JTx3

I also try to instruct my kids about the genetic component of the addictive personality. Fortunately, they are open to hearing it.  I really am lucky that they are so supportive.

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MJM

Now it’s the next day and of course I am hung over. It’s not as bad on BAC for some reason but still no fun.

 I wish that I could stop drinking first but it is so hard when someone else is drinking in the house. Yesterday I veered away from the bottle shop when getting groceries but when back home the temptation was too great.

 I am going to concentrate on getting myself back on track and then worry about my wife. 

I am concerned about my children and the potential for them to suffer this addiction. At the moment though, all I can do is try to get myself straightened out. When my children are a bit older there is a conversation that I need to have with them.

Thank you for your support. I really appreciate it.

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StuckinLA

Sending supportive thoughts your way, @MJM. As the child of an alcoholic and an alcoholic myself, I can only say that it's surprising how much can be forgiven. I don't want to repeat everything said already, even though it's the only advice really. So, I'm glad you're focusing on yourself first. Hopefully your wife will get to a place where she'll want to do the same. Hang in there.

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SKendall

Molly, 

I'm sorry that is really tough.  It's very hard to tell a 20 something he can't drink for the rest of his life.

As far as guilt, it's a useless emotion, especially in drinking.  Genetically, we are what we are.  The problem with alcoholism is we never get to the off switch in time.  No guilt in the world is going to fix the disease of alcoholism, it's a powerful mystery and we are discovering it's brain chemistry, genetic make up and just plain old wanting to get drunk.

If you can tell that nothing you are saying is going in, better to say nothing or be a nag and nagging has never worked.

Good luck.

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