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The End of my Addiction
phoenix

BBC Radio 4 article

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phoenix

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07wby11

Interesting discussion about baclofen and why some people can tolerate high dose, why most 'normal' people (no reference to addict/not addict) feel sedated at low dose. Conclusion is that next step is to find out a way to determine those who need high dose, those for whom low dose will work and those for whom it plain won't work.

So there will be people who can't tolerate Baclofen, which is something I think we need to be aware of - and which there is anecdotal evidence of on several forums.

 

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Molly78

Phoenix, I just read the transcript, & she only mentions the 2 baclofen trials presented at the conference which did not convincingly show benefit.  She also emphasises that of course no doc would consider prescribing baclofen without psychological support!  Her interpretation of the 2 trials is that bac didn't show benefit because the psychological support on its own was sufficient to "cure" these alcoholics.  Does she live in a parallel universe?

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Baclofenman
41 minutes ago, Molly78 said:

Phoenix, I just read the transcript, & she only mentions the 2 baclofen trials presented at the conference which did not convincingly show benefit.  She also emphasises that of course no doc would consider prescribing baclofen without psychological support!  Her interpretation of the 2 trials is that bac didn't show benefit because the psychological support on its own was sufficient to "cure" these alcoholics.  Does she live in a parallel universe?

Exactly - I emailed her yesterday explaining my disappointment at the lack of mention of the Bacloville results, which was carried out as an outpatient trial - It was as if I knew more than her and as someone who has prescribed Baclofen (apparently) she seemed very unsure

email to Prof. linford-Hughes said:

Hello Prof. Linford-Hughes

I listened to your interview on the Mark Porter, Radio 4 show and read the resultant transcript I was surprised by the lack of information mentioned by the Bacloville study, in that this had, most importantly none of the rather result dulling restrictions the others had in place From what I can gather, Bacloville reported: 56.8% of patients taking baclofen vs 36.5% of the placebo group achieved WHO criteria safe drinking levels measured in the last month of the 12 month study period. Furthermore: 60 general practices, 320 patients, all patients taken with no exclusions for psychiatric problems, psychotropic medications, or other types of substance abuse like opiates, THC or amphetamines.

In fact they had their 320 patients after initial review of 323 patients proposed for the study: they excluded only three who were simply too close to death to go into a 12 month study. Furthermore, Bacloville was very different from the others in that it was done entirely in a General Practice setting with no detox or rehabilitation (inpatient or outpatient), no requirement to stop drinking or aim for abstinence and no prescribed psychosocial program. The baclofen was individually titrated to each patient’s needs with a maximum dose set at 300mg/day. Bacloville showed firstly that just having a GP supporting treatment for alcoholism was already a powerful therapeutic tool with a 36.5% success rate in the placebo group and that’s a very important message. And if you add baclofen to the treatment, nearly 60% of these previously really heavy drinkers are now drinking at safe levels – this could be abstinence or low level drinking. That’s going to change their health and life expectancy a lot.

I also suggested to her as she was interested in the possibility that Al created a barrier between the receptor (gabab) and Baclofen that this is why HDB may be needed she could have my initial brain scan (when I was seriously drinking) and do one now, for research purposes - I also touched on my opinion on the relevance of the titration schedule and the reasons why I consider, failure due to side effects occur - I also asked her for comments on comorbidities and interactions

So - I probably overloaded the poor lady....but you don't ask..........I also apologised for my atrocious spelling and grammar, before anyone pulls me up....

Her email (public info) should anyone wish to email her is: anne.lingford-hughes@imperial.ac.uk

Regards

 

Bacman

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Baclofenman
On 28/09/2016 at 6:15 PM, phoenix said:

So there will be people who can't tolerate Baclofen, which is something I think we need to be aware of - and which there is anecdotal evidence of on several forums.

I think we all know this, every Baclofen user will have some initial side effects, it's the understanding of why some get worse than others that interests me 

Thanks for the link @phoenix - Radio 4 eh?, reminds me of the O'clock pips and TMS being interrupted by the Shipping forecast on LW

Regards

 

Bacman

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phoenix
16 hours ago, Baclofenman said:

I think we all know this, every Baclofen user will have some initial side effects, it's the understanding of why some get worse than others that interests me 

Thanks for the link @phoenix - Radio 4 eh?, reminds me of the O'clock pips and TMS being interrupted by the Shipping forecast on LW

Regards

 

Bacman

There's a lot of really good stuff on mental health, and health in general on R4. I'm glad it stimulated debate, slightly off topic but not completely, there's a really good programme been shown this week about prescription medications. I had to take a sudden deep breath when I saw some of the stuff people out there are taking, and the remedies for many conditions are quite simple - lifestyle changes. Alcoholism for many even I admit, does require a hand up from meds to overcome the dysfunctional cycle of dependence.

 

By the way I don't think there's a WHO safe limit, I think it's a limit of increased risk. For years I went with the 'safe' government and WHO recommendations, before discovering no alcohol is 'safe' it's all about perceived risk. Once the limit is reached the risks multiply hugely, far beyond the actual increased unit amounts. It's all in the wording and also how it's interpreted, which is very clever!

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Baclofenman
4 hours ago, phoenix said:

I heard something in a radio article this week which suggest many people can't tolerate high dose

I have heard this and read the transcript - I did not hear anything do with what you have said - Yes she mentioned problems taking Baclofen when the patient had liver/function issues but I could not find any reference to HDB and side effects requiring the termination or consideration of a Baclofen programme for any other reason?

Regards

 

Bacman

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Stot

Call me cynical but if Baclofen is indeed the cure for alcoholism, many specialists in the field will find their life's research is completely useless. If a cure has indeed been found, much less research into other methods will be needed, where does that leave people like prof Lindon-Highes?  Not to mention big Pharma and all of the many other drugs being used or developed. 

Maybe I'm completely wrong but how do you explain the lack of interest/enthusiasm in the medical profession for HDB as a treatment? 

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phoenix
13 hours ago, Baclofenman said:

I have heard this and read the transcript - I did not hear anything do with what you have said - Yes she mentioned problems taking Baclofen when the patient had liver/function issues but I could not find any reference to HDB and side effects requiring the termination or consideration of a Baclofen programme for any other reason?

Regards

 

Bacman

Because that wasn't what was said. What was said was the most/many people feel sleepy at normal (30mg) dose, other people they noticed didn't feel side effects at this dose and they are the ones that need  or can use a higher dose to get the benefits.

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