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SKendall

Checking In - January 2018

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SKendall    236
SKendall

Happy New Year!  May all of your wishes come true.

Interesting article this a.m. in the NYT regarding willpower.  Drs. are now saying willpower increases stress levels, it was a long article, but the gist of it was that using control at an early age produces smarter and high achieving kids.  For adults too, and the bonus is that feeling of accomplishment.  Maybe that's why white knuckling it doesn't work.  I was a very impulsive person and didn't allow myself to think before acting.  A lady I knew was over 10 yrs. sober and at a NYE party grabbed a glass of champagne and thus her decline back to drinking.

This makes a lot of sense to me and it was only when sober that I realized how impulsive I was.  Self-control also makes it easier to be compassionate and grateful.  So the zen of "being in the moment" and calm thought may be a key.

Mom, The kratom strains are described on kratom websites.

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terryk    144
terryk
On 12/19/2017 at 8:35 PM, Mom2JTx3 said:

Thanks @terryk  I understand the concept, but I’m not sure how I ended up with it.   Maybe that’s not even what’s going on.  I was never a binge drinker unless you’re talking about college.   Before indifference, I was pretty much drinking 24/7, up to four bottles of wine a day.    It was not the behavior that would typically cause kindling.  That said, I had two glasses of wine one night and couldn’t function the next day  I was out of it, extremely tired, but anxious   Couldn’t tell you what day it was.  It was another 24 hours before I felt normal  

Whats worse is what is happening to me two weeks after I’ve had something to drink. It certainly seems like DTs.  I end up pacing the floor in a highly anxious state for maybe 24 hours.  I’m confused and it gets to the point where I’m not making sense.  Eventually I just go to sleep for a day or two.  I think I had a seizure last time.  Why two weeks later?  Is it some kind of weird Baclofen effect?  

Oh sorry Mom2, now I remember your experience, and it not being a result of binge drinking... It does sound a lot like Delerium Tremens though, which usually presents in a few days, but can take more than a week to develop. These typical symptoms (of DTs) seem to match up with yours:  Body tremors, Changes in mental function, Confusion, Decreased attention span, Deep sleep lasting for more than a day, Delirium, Quick mood changes, Hallucinations, Restlessness, Fatigue.... I had a bunch of ideas I was going to put down here, but after a quick perusal of the literature describing protracted AWS, I'm going to have poke around a bit more to see if I can come up with some helpful and relevant answers for you.

-tk

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BarrelChested    220
BarrelChested

It's been a while since I've checked-in. My life has been a bit drama-filled. Frankly, it's been an emotional rollercoaster. Only my job (which I really enjoy) has been stable. So, in a rambling, disjointed fashion, a few random thoughts/experiences follow...

A week or so ago, I found myself in a situation "requiring" drinking. I didn't have my Naltrexone. I'd managed to have 1-2 without it a few times before. This time, I had several -- more than I really wanted. Anyway... I disliked it. I truly did not enjoy "the full experience" of drinking. That is just... bizarre. However, well, although I can drink to excess on Naltrexone (albeit less than half of my previous levels), I find that I've become accustomed to the low-euphoria version of drinking. Go figure. I might someday find myself abstaining to an even greater degree. Time will tell.

Booze causes hypertension. A doctor told me this (since getting a dog, my "serious" exercising has stopped (no time because of the dog)... and my BP has skyrocketed). Using a home BP monitor, I've noticed a STRONG correlation between drinking and hypertension. Just... ugh. I'm trying to avoid the BP meds.

The girl I'm dating has a real problem with booze. She gets fall-over drunk on a regular basis (and black-out drunk occasionally) . I really like her... but... well, I don't know. It's not a good combination. If you get so drunk that you pass-out in public... well, this is dangerous. It's also a drag having to baby-sit someone that's totally "housed..." and then get in a fight because you don't want to go to bed at 8-9pm on a Saturday night. I cannot -- will not -- dare try to tell someone they have a problem. No one can fix an addict but themselves. It took me a LONG time to choose to get help. I suspect that it only works when you decide to change for yourself -- not for anyone else.

Although there's more to report, I suspect that that's enough detail. At the end of the day, my drinking (even with the bad influences) is under control. I'm really grateful for Naltrexone. All-told, life's not so bad. It could be better... but it could also be a LOT worse. One upshot is that I largely avoided the complete sh1t-show of U.S. politics over the holiday break (it was nice... for that crap just drains me).

 

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SKendall    236
SKendall

Hi B.C., welcome back.  It's good news to see you have your drinking under control.  I'm stating the obvious but your girlfriend's addiction to booze is not good. Not sure of yours or her age but falling-down drunk can only be a complete liability for you.  If nothing else you are starting to see what a nuisance drunks can be lol.

Great job on yourself keep it up.

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Molly78    797
Molly78
On 1/6/2018 at 0:44 AM, BarrelChested said:

low-euphoria version of drinking.

I have this with baclofen.  And I'm getting to think it's just not worth bothering with.  Previously I had planned that I could still "enjoy" a couple of drinks, butt now one is enough & it just makes me a bit drowsy.  So I guess there is an extinction response with bac as well as an anti-craving effect.  I am now titrating down from 200 mg at 10 mg per week.  This is mainly because I finish work in April so my income will drop & buying bac costs money.  My GP allows me 60 mg/day for muscle spasm, so if I can settle at 80 - 100 mg daily my costs will be minimal.

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StuckinLA    989
StuckinLA

Those girls are always the most fun, though. For a while ::sigh::

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SKendall    236
SKendall

Update on kratom.  I tried the same strain (Red Bali) again.  It worked so well the first time and of course, I thought 1  tsp worked well. how about a 1-1/2 tsp(!) and made it into tea with honey.  Big mistake!  I had the euphoria and pain relief, but then went on to jitters and a lingering anxiety.  I don't even care about the euphoria, just help me get pain relief.

When I was getting my dental implants in Mexico, their pain reliever was Dolac, described as an analgesic but did the trick for pain relief and it was non-narcotic.  I asked my dr. about it and she had never heard of it.  The analgesic pain relief is very similar.  I also tried the maeng da which is the white kratom for energy and focus.  All I got was itchy skin.  Maybe that's just me, I become homicidal if the label on my shirt touches my skin.  I need energy and focus badly.  I have untreated ADD., but will pass on this.

I may just continue with a weakened Red Bali, but that would become pretty pricey.  I also found a blog and there were some horror stories, first time users using 10X the recommended dose and it went badly, of course they were abusing it.  There were also many who thought it a wonder product for arthritis.  The best big pharma has done on that front is to kill a lot of people and the side effects of existing drugs is stroke, death, etc.

Cure is worse by far than the symptoms.  Well, that's my 2018 experiment!

Thoughts to you all who have experienced freezing weather.  Here in TX we were down to 19 deg.  Hopefully, will kill fire ants and airborne colds.

Edited by SKendall
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Jetsman32    454
Jetsman32

Hello all. I owe you all an apology for not being on the forum in so long including  @Ne1 and @Mom2JTx3  and @Baclofenmanand others who I don't see on this particular thread. The last 4 months for me have been incredibly tough. My company laid my off in August after being acquired. This was extremely hard on my family- especially from a financial/insurance perspective. I was able to pick up a remote contract gig with a company in Boston for a few months then was on unemployment for awhile. I believe I shared this with all of you in the past but my company moved me from Boston, Ma to South Carolina 3.5 years ago. The area I live in is very poor and their are no jobs here that pay even half of what I was making on my Boston salary. On top of that, we can't move because my son is in a state-paid residential prep school and if we leave the state he can't go anymore. This is an award winning school- I would not relocate and take that away from him for anything in the world. I am now working for a technical staffing agency out of Boston full-time remote from my home office. I like this job but it pays 35% less than what I was making before (although I can earn commission but that won't hit until at least mid 2nd quarter) and they don't offer insurance of any kind (4 person company). For that reason I am buying a family plan that is incredibly basic out of pocket for about $600 per month. It doesn't even include emergency care and they only pay $200 per month for prescriptions and I found out yesterday that to fill my baclofen prescription would be almost $300. The issue therein is that I have other prescriptions that I must take for other health issues that my $200 insurance payment  must go towards so I would have to pay the full $300 for the baclofen if I wanted it. I'll be the first to say this is totally on me- my wife and I did a horrible job of budgeting in the case of a layoff. We honestly thought our savings could carry us for much longer than it did.

With my current salary and the insurance I have, we are barely squeaking bye. I'm not saying this for pity, I have a strong belief in God and know things will improve but for now, I need to taper off of baclofen very quickly.

 Right now I have enough baclofen for 27 days at my full dose. I also have roughly 40- 300mg gapapentin, 10- 750 lyrica, 2 bottles of passion flower and a full unopened bottle of phenibut. I am at a point where I must make all of these meds work together for a  fast taper. I know this is dangerous and frankly, I am scared.

My regular dosing scheduled for bac is 140 in the AM and 100 in the PM. I took my regular morning dose this morning and this evening only took 80. If I get any withdrawal feelings I am going to take a gabapentin later tonight. Starting tomorrow I am going to start moving more quickly by substituting phenibut for baclofen in the mornings. I am only going to take 120 tomorrow morning and 1500mg of phenibut. Phenibut has a very similar chemical composition to bac and is an anti-anxiety drug so I am hoping that this will work. From then on I will come down 20-30  every 4-5 days using my other meds to offset the withdrawals. If my math is correct, the total taper should take 38-42 days.

 I believe with the plan I have will work but I will still have some wicked withdrawals. In the end I'll be addicted to phenibut but then I can start a slow taper off of that because 1000g is only $20. Some of you are going to think I'm crazy (and I know it is) but I am in a situation that calls for immediate action. If any of you remember, I was addicted to Phenibut when I started baclofen and that was why I was easily able to start at a high dose of baclofen very quickly without extreme side-effects- although I did have some.

As far as drinking again goes, I hope that doesn't become a problem again. I know many of you aren't Christians but my 2018 agreement with Jesus at church was that I will not drink at all anymore and I am going to have a candid conversation with my Pastor this Wednesday night and lay it all out on the table. I also haven't really been drinking much at all anyway except the occasional beer so this should make it easier. And although I hate to say this, if I do get the urge to pick-up, there is an AA building across town that always has it's doors open. However, anyone here that knows me understands how I feel about AA (I hate it), I WILL go if it comes to it. I won't mess with any of the steps but I'm sure sitting in meetings and hearing about how alcohol has destroyed the lives of others will remind me of where I came from and provide an additional support system. My wife is also supportive and I know she will have my back through this.

This forum helped me get sober and I am grateful to each and every one of you for that. I would truly appreciate any thoughts or suggestions that will help me with this taper.

Edited by Jetsman32

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Molly78    797
Molly78

@Jetsman32 what a sad story & how dreadful that there seems to be no access to healthcare in the US without spending a lot of money. Surely the current occupant of the White House hasn't managed to repeal the ACA yet?  Are you not eligible for that?

I do fear for you tapering down so fast, especially as there is no knowing the exact equivalence of baclofen & phenibut, but my thoughts are with you.

Keep us posted with your progress.

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Jetsman32    454
Jetsman32

Hi Molly,

       The ACA is here but it is.....terrible. The plans are extremely expensive and limited. The majority of hospitals/Dr's in my area don't even accept the bronze plan which is the lowest one. The middle plan (which would be closer to company paid health insurance) is $1800 per month. Rates on the ACA plans nationally doubled and tripled in some cases in 2016 even while President Obama was still in office and every state/county has different plans- with some area's only offering 1 option. I don't want to play politics at all but this country still has a long way to go to figure out how to provide sustainable healthcare for all. I don't blame President's Obama or Trump for this, mainly because I don't like to argue over politics and secondly because I personally don't know what the right answer is. A common misconception is that not everyone in the US is entitled to healthcare. This is only partially true. Every emergency room is required to treat any patient that walks in the door, regardless of citizenship, age or if they have insurance. On the back end of that though you get a system over flowing with people using the ER for things like the flu or a stomach ache which puts our hospitals in debt (because people don't pay) and prices go up for everyone. A major issue (as is my case) is with prescriptions. I make too much for medicade so there is no help for me to get the meds I and or others need.

       In any case I appreciate your response. Don't worry, I'm going to take it as slowly as I can with the meds I have on hand and I will keep everyone updated.

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terryk    144
terryk

Jetsman, I strongly recommend that you do not taper off too rapidly, nor cross-taper to Phenibut,. Here's a piece I wrote about what to do if you are running out, or low on Baclofen:

You will need register or log in to read this content

I think that you might find that there are people out there with extra Baclofen around, maybe because they bought a bunch and found that it didn't work for them, or they just accumulated it over time after titrating to a maintenance dose while still receiving a threshold dose prescription.

It wouldn't hurt to ask... I would try over You will need register or log in to read this content too.

-tk

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Jetsman32    454
Jetsman32

Hi @terryk thanks for the reply and the info. The taper chart is very helpful and I will do as you said and see if anyone has any extra bac they are not using. Also- going to try not to use the phenibut except maybe in extreme cases of withdrawal. Much appreciated.

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StuckinLA    989
StuckinLA

So sorry that things aren't going very well @Jetsman32. Thinking of you and hoping for the best.

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MJM    247
MJM

Happy New Year everyone! I hope that this year brings the sort of indifference to alcohol you desire. That sounds corny, sorry. But you know what I mean.  Whether staying sober or drinking in moderation, no-one wants the hell of full-blown alcoholism.

I've been sober since 28 December, on 150mg Bac. I am hopeless at checking in here, and usually only to top-up on my miserable, woe-is-me thread. I want to change that in 2018. Part of what leads me back to drinking is that I 'forget' that I am an alcoholic.

I did have a bloody awful Christmas/New Year period, probably the worst ever. From early December, every week I was hit with at least one drama if not two. Drinking every couple days did not help. It's interesting to see how the freshly sober mind works. I still walked around for a few days cringing, as though I had a target on my forehead. I was so worried about something else going wrong. Now I feel more positive, even about my debt levels. I used money I put away for my tax bill to pay the plumber (who fixed a broken sewer pipe). I am not so worried now; either I will save all or most of the money in time or go on a payment plan with the tax office. It won't be fun, for sure, but it'll work out.

Jetsman I am so sorry to hear about your predicament. Life can be tough but it sounds like your faith will pull you through. Good for you.

 

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StuckinLA    989
StuckinLA
7 hours ago, MJM said:

I am not so worried now

That is the very best thing to here, MJM. Really hoping things sort themselves out for you, and congrats on the sober-time! Completely empathize with the "forgetting" you're an alcoholic. 

Well, not much to report but since I'm here... Nope, nothing. Back in school, first week down teaching at both places again plus once-a-week tutoring. M/W is fine, commuting across town and teaching and office hours and tutoring, fills the day. Still struggling with T/Th, as my classes don't start until 3:30pm - really want to do more with the morning. Hell, the whole day really, but it's difficult to get myself organized when I know that I'll have to go start work and I end up wasting the whole day just sitting around staring at the internet. Discipline, discipline, discipline. I need some.

Other than that, throwing money around like a drunken sailor. Paid off my credit cards and at this rate my balances will be right back up to what they were before the new year. But a huge industrial bookshelf! And Belgian linen bedsheets! And maybe a sofa! And I have my eye on a $200 leather-bound King James Bible... And, and, and. I swear, I really ought to take handfuls of this money and instead just go waste it at a strip club in Vegas. Come to think of it, I'm actually surprised I *haven't* done that yet.

Oh well, that's about it. Hope ya'll are doing well out there.

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Nicnak    408
Nicnak

Happpy January everyone x

A little retail therapy stuck? Haha

well I ended up my Xmas trying “once again” to titrate up and got to 240 with no switch.Very very constipated again so that really must be it this time.

I thought I’d go down the naltrexone route (again) but I’ve never really given this s chance because I always wanted that “switch”

Im off bac now about 4 days and did it quite fast and have been having very strange vivid dreams and hallucinations but I’m not scared off them because I know what they are.Well this just happened last night.

I decided just like that one day to stop that drinking that day 2nd jan and start dieting.Ive drank i day a week which I call my day off.Ive lost 11 pounds and the cravings are very low,much lower than on 240.So I’m just keeping my fingers crossed.

Also went to the docs yesterday for more blood pressure meds and brought up propranolol for my anxiety and she agreed to prescribe them.Ive been researching them because I’ve got quite strange taste in my mouth,kind of bittter like if you’ve stuck your finger in your ear and tasted it(by accident of course).I found some literature about it being used for alcohol cravings but that was back in 2012 and it said it was going to be a 5 year trial.

I found the article in mail on line (sorry @Molly78 )

Anyone heard anything about this!

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Nicnak    408
Nicnak

Well the propranolol bombed after just 2 days.Nightmare and very vivid dreams and hallucinations day and night and although I know they are not real they really frightening.I can even “feel” theses throngs brown things lightly stinging my legs like a little electric shocks 

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StuckinLA    989
StuckinLA

Wow, well that sure didn't waste any time @Nicnak.

Was going to say I had heard of it, but didn't because I only remember one newspaper article and now guess it wouldn't be helpful anyway. Sorry that's not going to work. Sounds like you're doing pretty well otherwise, though! And congrats on the lost weight. That's one of my priorities for this year, sigh.

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Felina    397
Felina

Quick drive-by. I've been out of town for a few days and missed a lot of posts.

1. So sorry for your situation, @Jetsman32but I'm glad you have the faith and resolve to get through it.

2. WTG @MJM - that is seriously impressive!

3. @Nicnak - how many mgs of Propranalol did your doc prescribe? You may be overdosing. I started out taking 5 mgs. A lot of doctors will prescribe 20-40 mgs at a time.

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Nicnak    408
Nicnak

@Felina

My doc gave me 80mg straight off and said she could up it later in.

She gave me a choice of ones that you take advantage and when you need it or slow release ones you take everyday and I chose the later.

Anyway by the middle of the third day the hallucinations were almost gone so I took a third capsule and have had no more nightmares or hallucinations

 

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StuckinLA    989
StuckinLA

If anyone ( @Felina, @Nicnak) is wondering about that Propanalol article, it's here: You will need register or log in to read this content

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