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Otter

Bitter sweet...

I know what that means.  My wife is in bed having relapsed but I note the link to my site has now been picked up by the Journal of the Royal Pharmaceutical Society.  So, my work wasn't for nothing and the RPS is like the US NIH.

My translation of the Prescribing Guide is referred to in the article and my web site is cited in the Bibliography. 

 

http://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/feature/baclofen-from-standard-treatment-for-spasticity-to-managing-alcoholism/11122223.article

 

 

 

 

 

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Otter

 

Baclofen — from standard treatment for spasticity to managing alcoholism

The Pharmaceutical Journal12 JUN 2013By Jenny Bryan

Jenny Bryan

Corresponding Author

Medical journalist based in London

Baclofen has been used for treating spasticity for many years before losing out to gabapentin. Recently its use in alcoholism has sparked new interest. Jenny Bryan explains

For the estimated 12 million people worldwide who live with spasticity, the gamma amino butyric acid (GABA) analogue baclofen (Lioresal) has been a valuable option for relieving disabling and distressing symptoms for nearly 50 years.1 Before its introduction in the UK in 1966, patients seeking relief from muscle spasms were faced with increasing lower limb weakness and impaired bladder function associated intrathecal phenol or unacceptable drowsiness with chlordiazepoxide or diazepam in the doses required

© Royal Pharmaceutical Society 2016

To read the article in full please visit The Pharmaceutical Journal

 

Edited by Admin1
Copyright Refusal
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Admin1

Hi Otter

I am very sorry to inform you that we have been refused authority to reproduce the material above in its full extent, as it is subject to copyright to The Pharmacy Journal. I had made enquiries previously to the Author, who whilst happy with the idea referred me to the magazine itself.

Whilst I appreciate it may seem petty and unnecessay, I have had it in writing from the Senior Editior that publishing any more than the first paragraph will only be permitted to prevent copyright violating - You are of course able to refer to it by external link as often as you like.

I repeat, I am very sorry for this but I am sure you will appreciate we have only been open for a month and I dont want to be getting under peoples noses quite yet.

On the plus side, I am pleased that your translation paper was referred to and you got some more qudos from this work.

I will of course ask the moderation team to consider whether or not we wish to abide by this request but in the meantime I have had to take it down.

I am also seeking professional advice.

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Otter

I thought that if someone publishes to the public it is ok to reproduce what they have published so long as you show your source.  They gave me permission to download that and I can quote from it if I want.  If you can't quote from a work then it would be impossible to write any academic paper.  I am not sure it matters how much of it you quote.

In any event, it's an academic point.  I'm not bothered.

 

The point is that the article refers to the French doctors having knowledge of baclofen treatment and having written the prescribing guidelines. They then cite my website where I have links to the prescribing guide.   I realize now that this was published in 2013 and if it would have been read by quite a few pharmacists and pharmacologists such as those working in research at places like Reckitts Benckeiser.

 

Still no public awareness.  What happened to invetigative journalism.  It's an important story but there isn't a single UK newpaper reporting this, or US, as far as I am aware. 

 

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Missykc
On May 2, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Ne1 said:

I see that there's been lots of action going on...I have't checked it out yet. 

After my oh-so-sunny post on Saturday morning about not going out because I didn't want to drink to much, yadda, yadda...I bought a bottle of bourbon and drank the whole damn thing. Not the small one, either. 

Couldn't take any food, much less meds, yesterday. Spent Ed's only day off this week in bed. So obviously he's furious. 

Still recovering. Feeling kind of hopeless about the whole situation. Will check back in and follow up with everyone later or tomorrow. 

I have mixed feelings about what I'm going to say. I don't mean to offend you Ne. 

When I started baclofen I had to make the effort to change my habits and not drink. I remember one night when I dropped my son at his dad's. My routine was to stop on my way home and get booze. I really struggled with myself driving home.  Hell, I struggled all day about it.  I didn't stop and went home and started writing about how I felt, how I wanted to drink and on and on. I'm sure I cried too. I didn't drink and I felt stronger and better about myself. It was something I could build on  

I'm wondering if you can push yourself a bit more about quitting?  I think it's harder for you because you don't seem to have much of a schedule. Can you schedule yourself for things?

 

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Baclofenman
1 hour ago, Missykc said:

I have mixed feelings about what I'm going to say. I don't mean to offend you Ne. 

When I started baclofen I had to make the effort to change my habits and not drink. I remember one night when I dropped my son at his dad's. My routine was to stop on my way home and get booze. I really struggled with myself driving home.  Hell, I struggled all day about it.  I didn't stop and went home and started writing about how I felt, how I wanted to drink and on and on. I'm sure I cried too. I didn't drink and I felt stronger and better about myself. It was something I could build on  

I'm wondering if you can push yourself a bit more about quitting?  I think it's harder for you because you don't seem to have much of a schedule. Can you schedule yourself for things?

 

Hi

I can agree with all of this post especially the parts I have highlighted

You know Missy, sometimes I feel like a fraud - I thought I was a big drinker - I took Baclofen and two weeks later I stopped drinking - That was 123 days ago - I had little side effects or cravings and to be perfectly honest it was easy to get to the position I find myself in now

The thing that I have learned is that Baclofen has different effects on different people - In my (very limited) experience, I have only heard of Baclofen for a handful of months and in my opinion (FWIW) It appears to be most effective with people with anxiety issues  - I know this was the case with me - I worried about stuff....Shit that did not matter (to a normal person) - At the time I thought it was normal - Only now can I see that it was not

Please do not think I am not in agreement - I most certainly am - Sometimes Baclofen is not the answer

I do not think Ne will be offended in the slightest 

Regards

 

Bacman

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Ne1

Holy cow, Otter. I am so saddened to hear about what's going on with your wife. Is there a way to dissolve the baclofen tablets you have? I'm sure there is. If you are interested and need help figuring it out, I'll do my best to find out. I'm not sure how, and I'm not at my best, but I am just heartbroken for you. I hope, too, that getting help for her surgery is not insurmountable. 

And I think you're right, that regardless of anything else, managing stress and anxiety is of utmost importance, but particularly if one stops taking baclofen. 

It's amazing that your work has been acknowledged. I'm so very happy for you and proud to know you! And proud of all the work you've put in over the years to get this acknowledgment. I haven't been part of the discussion about whether or not posting the entire work here is an infringement on copyright, but I think we should trust Administrator1's judgment. I know he would not make a decision about changing someone's post without a good deal of research and input from the moderators. Glad you're not upset about it. Bottom line is that your work is acknowledged, and that you shared it here. Thank you for doing that. 

(Also, I agree that we need to move some things around here to make this area more visible. Just haven't gotten to it yet.)

1 hour ago, Missykc said:

I have mixed feelings about what I'm going to say. I don't mean to offend you Ne. 

...

I'm wondering if you can push yourself a bit more about quitting?  I think it's harder for you because you don't seem to have much of a schedule. Can you schedule yourself for things?

Thanks so much for sharing your experience, Missy. I'm not at all offended. That night, when you decided not to drink, were you taking what you consider your "switch" dose? Or, rather than say "switch", which I've never experienced and don't really believe happens for most of us, were you at 80mg, which is when you stopped drinking? 

I don't expect baclofen to do all the work this time, even though that's how I remember it happening for me the first time. I was taking A LOT of baclofen. And it took a long time to get to the place where I was able to make the decision not to buy something to drink on the way home. But part of my "plan" at the time, was that we didn't keep any booze in the house and so I had to make that decision each day. And each day it became easier to imagine not stopping. There were even days that I forgot, though I would just drag myself out of the house after getting home to go and buy something for that night. 

Anyway, your point is well taken. I don't have the time or energy to wait until I hit the point with baclofen where it's (relatively) easy and (relatively) comfortable to not drink. I'm at 260mg. I stopped drinking last time at 320mg. Best case scenario, that's at least another 3 weeks to a month. 

What I've found is that I go a day or two or three abstinent, or drinking very little, and then binge. That's not an abnormal pattern for people who are trying to remain abstinent. Despite an absolute commitment not to drink on Saturday, I was completely overwhelmed with cravings in the late afternoon. I'm not making any excuses for buying the bourbon, but I understand why I did it. I wish I'd tried to eat a pint of ice cream first. Or fistfuls of chocolate. Sunday was particularly devastating because I had failed to not drink on Saturday after saying I wouldn't. Well, that and the brutal hangover. 

I didn't drink yesterday. Today looks good, too. I'm going to spend the weekend with my parents, and so won't be able to overindulge. Hopefully won't drink at all, though it's hard when the wine is flowing. I'm not sure where they are with their drinking. Last time I was there, they weren't. But there's other company coming this weekend. We'll see. 

In the meantime, I'm in limbo with everything in my life, letting it all slide by and hiding from it. Again, in spite of my best intentions when I wake up in the morning...Major depression at its finest. I am experiencing, what's a good word? Ennui, perhaps. Or maybe malaise. Or maybe just calling it what it is--depression--is more appropriate. 

I heard Clay Jenkins on the Jefferson Hour yesterday (yes, I'm an NPR nerd) talking about how Jefferson believed that physical activity and nature were integral and vital pieces for avoiding ennui. And that ennui was a product of a lazy mind and body. We all know it's true. I just have to put into place something that gets me out of the house and engaged with something (anything!) in the world. Haven't found it yet. Will let you know when I do. Should help to visit my folks this weekend, of course. They have a lot of plans for us. Which I'm dreading. ha. Plus I'm taking the pup (who turned 2 yo this week!) and they live in the city and don't have a yard. Loooooong walks will be in order so she doesn't destroy anything in their house. Who knows? Maybe it'll be what I need to come back and face my own life on Monday? Fingers crossed and all that. 

Thanks for checking in. I'm going to start my own thread here sometime soon so that this one isn't just about me. Or maybe I'll just stop thinking/writing so much about me? That would be a welcome reprieve, honestly. 

Thinking of you, Lis and sending good thoughts (even prayers of a sort) for your meeting tomorrow.

Hiya to everyone else and more soon. xo

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Otter

Thank, Ne.  I am searching the house for a couple of bottles of liquid baclofen.  I can't use them now because she is making it difficult.

I think this is more than just alcohol induced psychosis.  She is completely unhinged.   I feel it is a result of a combination of dehydration, starvation, alcohol, severe anxiety and "hormones".  She stares at me with crazy eyes and talks like a lunatic.  It's like being with someone with dementia, not just drunk.  She said at one point, that she had taken a whole bottle of melatonin which might explain one of the days.

Just imagine you can't eat anything because of a stomach problem but the only way to get rid of the blockage is to have a plastic ring removed from around your stomach.  If you don't get it removed you will starve to death and the only thing that goes down is liquid, but water and fruit juices don't give you any energy while alcohol picks you up and allows you to function.  That is what is going on.

 

No she is sick to her stomach.  Having abused me verbally for two weeks she now apologized.  Monday she was amourous, but she can't remember that...

 

Anyway, it's like a roller coaster.  I have to oversee the house we are fixing up for the old lady and the staff are over there so my wife is not able to cope with running our house, so I have to do everything while she threatens that if I go over there, she will do something horrible. She has self harmed again as well.  

 

All in all, it's a nightmare but I can't get her to hospital if she is throwing up , then to get "better" she drinks and then she is so out of it, aggressive and abusive that I can't get her to do anything.  

She is so jealous.   She wants me to put the old lady in a home and rent out her house.  She can't understand that it's not my house to rent out and the old lady doesn't want to go into a home.   It's nutso.  She told me to fire the staff but I told her they don't work for me so she drove over to the other house and stood in the street yelling at them.  It's so embarrassing. When she does sober up she says how her father, if he was alive, would be ashamed of her.  

I think this has to be the "worst case".  It's a stroke which hit the very same part of the brain that Ameisen says is responsible for anxiety so her anxiety may be incurable.   I don't know...

 

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Ne1
1 hour ago, Baclofenman said:

Hi

I can agree with all of this post especially the parts I have highlighted

You know Missy, sometimes I feel like a fraud - I thought I was a big drinker - I took Baclofen and two weeks later I stopped drinking - That was 123 days ago - I had little side effects or cravings and to be perfectly honest it was easy to get to the position I find myself in now

We cross-posted, Bacman. 

I don't know why you'd feel like a fraud. You said yourself that baclofen affects us all in different ways. Missy only needed 80mg. My husband and I needed more than 300mg. Some people stop drinking right away. Some don't. The research shows the same results, with the same dramatic differences. We don't know why. No one knows why! We know it isn't weight. Or gender. Other than that, it's all one big question mark. Some day, maybe... <heavy sigh>

I will say that in my favorite book, A Prescription for Alcoholics, when she is detailing medications she includes the research that has been done on the meds. In many cases, they have found that some meds have much greater efficacy for people with certain genomes. Naltrexone is one. Also, interestingly, Zoloft (sertraline), which is an antidepressant. For some people with alcoholism, it decreases their drinking. In others, it increases it. They have identified certain characteristics which might identify the people for whom it would help vs. those who it would harm, but the bottom line is that they think it's a particular genetic marker. 

So maybe that's the reason that some of us need less time/amount than others? It could be as simple as that, but since it's incredibly complicated, we won't know for years and years and years. Unless there's a miracle breakthrough. 

10 minutes ago, Otter said:

I think this is more than just alcohol induced psychosis.  She is completely unhinged.   I feel it is a result of a combination of dehydration, starvation, alcohol, severe anxiety and "hormones".  She stares at me with crazy eyes and talks like a lunatic.  It's like being with someone with dementia, not just drunk.  She said at one point, that she had taken a whole bottle of melatonin which might explain one of the days.

...

No she is sick to her stomach.  Having abused me verbally for two weeks she now apologized.  Monday she was amourous, but she can't remember that...

Otter, I am confused as to why she isn't in the hospital already! All of this sounds incredibly dangerous to her and impossible for you to manage on your own. If for no other reason than to get her the nutrition she needs via nasogastric tube or at the very least, an IV, and something for the psychosis/withdrawal. 

I cannot imagine trying to juggle all of the various aspects of your life right now. It must be incredibly stressful, particularly when you are trying so hard to do the right thing for so many other people. I really, really hope that you can get some help or relief soon. My heart goes out to you. I, too, wish there was something I could do. 

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bleep

Fuck sakes Otter, I'm truly sorry to hear about your woes. It sounds a horrid situation. I wish you the best.

 

Ne is on point here, this sounds like a situation that requires some help.

 

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Lostinspace

Hi All. Sorry I haven’t been around as of late. I’ve been in a funk/massive anxiety state/smoking my body weight in weed, with huge kief hits on top, to deal with everything. Anyway, the meeting with my boss went well - better than expected. My boss told me that he’s happy with the changes that I’ve made so far, and that so long as I keep up the changes I’ve already made and continue improving, that I still have a place with the company. Thank all that is beautiful in the universe!!!!! I really couldn’t afford to lose this job and I think I will finally sleep peacefully tonight for a change. Thanks, Ne and Stuck for your thoughts.

Otter -  I’m so sorry to hear about your wife. My heart goes out to you. I agree with others that the situation may be more than you can handle and needs professional guidance. In any case, you’re in my thoughts. I hope things start to look up for both of you really soon.

Ne - I’m sorry you’re still wrestling with depression and lack of motivation to do anything. That undoubtedly feeds into the “fuck it, I’ll just give in and drink” mindset. I understand completely how difficult it is to try to stop drinking when you’re not yet at the dose of baclofen where quitting drinking is easy. I stopped drinking when I was at 275 mg. I didn’t reach indifference until 360 mg. So I understand your pain. My situation was a little different because I had a husband threatening to leave me if he ever found out I was drinking again, so my motivation was pretty damn high. But the cravings were tough to deal with at first, for sure. I had to get by by keeping myself as thoroughly distracted as I could. If thoughts of drinking popped into my head, I tried my best to redirect them towards whatever else it was I was doing when it happened, things like refocusing on what I was reading, or refocusing on enjoying nature as I went for a walk. I often had to refocus many, many times even in the same hour, or even for hours at a time. Some times it felt like the cravings would never go away, but they always did. It sucked, but with persistence, I made it through and eventually reached my goal. The key is to stay engaged in doing things, and don’t leave idle time for your mind to travel to the liquor store without you. I’m not suggesting that you have to maintain perfect abstinence (or feel badly if you don’t), but quitting at a sub-par dose of baclofen is doable - uncomfortable, but doable. Just think of it this way - how much harder would it be to quit if you didn’t have any bac in your system. You’ve already come a long way, and the cravings are substantially lessened compared to what they were pre-bac. Use that edge you have now to propel yourself towards as many AF days as you can manage. I don’t mean to pressure you, but you said yourself you don’t have the time or energy to wait until you’re at the right dose to quit comfortably.

I hope everyone else out there is having a good one.

Edited by Lostinspace
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Mom2JTx3

LIS.. Thanks for your post.  You have been on my mind lately and I was happy to hear that your meeting was positive.

Otter, You have also been on my mind.  I truly hope that this works itself out for you.  I would also value any input you could provide on my general discussion post.  I am currently struggling due to my life situation and it ties into the whole anxiety thing.

Thanks,

Mom2

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SKendall

Lis, thank you for your post.  Distraction by means of mother nature is the best, I live in the Northwest and there is a forest close to my house.  I used to go and meditate imagining that I was planted in that forest and it brought me so much peace, as well as chanterelle mushrooms, lol.

 

Otter, how is life for you at the moment?

 

MomTJ, how are you?  Ill bet you are a very good listener.

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Missykc
On May 4, 2016 at 4:35 PM, Ne1 said:

 

Thanks so much for sharing your experience, Missy. I'm not at all offended. That night, when you decided not to drink, were you taking what you consider your "switch" dose? Or, rather than say "switch", which I've never experienced and don't really believe happens for most of us, were you at 80mg, which is when you stopped drinking? 

I don't expect baclofen to do all the work this time, even though that's how I remember it happening for me the first time. I was taking A LOT of baclofen. And it took a long time to get to the place where I was able to make the decision not to buy something to drink on the way home. But part of my "plan" at the time, was that we didn't keep any booze in the house and so I had to make that decision each day. And each day it became easier to imagine not stopping. There were even days that I forgot, though I would just drag myself out of the house after getting home to go and buy something for that night. 

Anyway, your point is well taken. I don't have the time or energy to wait until I hit the point with baclofen where it's (relatively) easy and (relatively) comfortable to not drink. I'm at 260mg. I stopped drinking last time at 320mg. Best case scenario, that's at least another 3 weeks to a month. 

What I've found is that I go a day or two or three abstinent, or drinking very little, and then binge. That's not an abnormal pattern for people who are trying to remain abstinent. Despite an absolute commitment not to drink on Saturday, I was completely overwhelmed with cravings in the late afternoon. I'm not making any excuses for buying the bourbon, but I understand why I did it. I wish I'd tried to eat a pint of ice cream first. Or fistfuls of chocolate. Sunday was particularly devastating because I had failed to not drink on Saturday after saying I wouldn't. Well, that and the brutal hangover. 

I didn't drink yesterday. Today looks good, too. I'm going to spend the weekend with my parents, and so won't be able to overindulge. Hopefully won't drink at all, though it's hard when the wine is flowing. I'm not sure where they are with their drinking. Last time I was there, they weren't. But there's other company coming this weekend. We'll see. 

In the meantime, I'm in limbo with everything in my life, letting it all slide by and hiding from it. Again, in spite of my best intentions when I wake up in the morning...Major depression at its finest. I am experiencing, what's a good word? Ennui, perhaps. Or maybe malaise. Or maybe just calling it what it is--depression--is more appropriate. 

I heard Clay Jenkins on the Jefferson Hour yesterday (yes, I'm an NPR nerd) talking about how Jefferson believed that physical activity and nature were integral and vital pieces for avoiding ennui. And that ennui was a product of a lazy mind and body. We all know it's true. I just have to put into place something that gets me out of the house and engaged with something (anything!) in the world. Haven't found it yet. Will let you know when I do. Should help to visit my folks this weekend, of course. They have a lot of plans for us. Which I'm dreading. ha. Plus I'm taking the pup (who turned 2 yo this week!) and they live in the city and don't have a yard. Loooooong walks will be in order so she doesn't destroy anything in their house. Who knows? Maybe it'll be what I need to come back and face my own life on Monday? Fingers crossed and all that. 

Thanks for checking in. I'm going to start my own thread here sometime soon so that this one isn't just about me. Or maybe I'll just stop thinking/writing so much about me? That would be a welcome reprieve, honestly. 

Thinking of you, Lis and sending good thoughts (even prayers of a sort) for your meeting tomorrow.

Hiya to everyone else and more soon. xo

Ne, my doctor wouldn't let me go above 80 mgs so I sat there for quite awhile. It wasn't really a switch but it's where I switched. I didn't find MWO and Lo0p until I'd been on baclofen for months. 

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Otter

It's no different here than it is anywhere else.   We went to the hospital and checked her in after I stopped her drinking the day before.  In that state of mind she went to the hospital as a pretext to getting out so she could buy booze, took baclofen all day, things were great, then she somehow got something inside her and was completely out of her tree on Saturday all day.  It's impossible for anyone to deal with that situation.   

I have no idea how much she drank but she seemed completely spaced out by 4 oclock so I gave her some baclofen and she eventually fell asleep. She's been asleep now for over 24 hours.  I would worry but she is as tough as an ox and seems to have an almost infinite capacity for withstanding alcohol and any medication she can get her hands on.  This one is scary, though, and if she doesn't pull out of this by the morning I will have to call an ambulance.  She is beginning to come around a bit but this looks more like she is in a coma than just sleeping.  Again, though, I have seen her in this condition so many times.   If she drank the equivalent of a bottle of vodka up to 5 oclock yesterday then she doesn't sober up until two days later  but the baclofen hasn't helped in the sense that her breathing is very slow and she is totally limp.

I am afraid we are no further ahead with this baclofen project outside France. 

 

Had she stayed in hospital on Friday then this might not have happened, but the underlying condition was acting on her mind and she just would not stay in the hospital so she was considered uncooperative and everything was cancelled and we had to go back to the doctor who turned out to be very proactive and concerned and he had arranged everything.  He even ensured the windows were not openable so that was why there was all the messing around with them.  Had he not organized that, or told us what he was doing, she might not have left the hospital.  I think she had to leave, though, because she had to make up with someone and/or get booze.

I've suspended all my other activities indefinitely now.  Most of what I have been doing is done, for the time being so it's a good time for a rest.

Her eyes don't dilate when I open them which is kind of freaking me out.  She is making some noises and at least opening her eyes.  She just looks utterly paralytic but this is a combo of drugs and alcohol and I don't know what she has taken.  A few days ago she took an entire bottle of melatonin but that didn't have too much effect.  I've no idea.  I just hope it wears off soon but I expect it will take til the morning. 

Other than that, things are great.  Sailing season started for my son this morning. The weather is great.  I finished off a bit of grouting of the swimming pool.   I suppose when one gets so used to this kind of drama nothing surprises me and I don't really worry too much about this.  

 

We shall see.  I think maybe I should stay nearby.

 

 

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Molly78

Ne, are you OK?

Otter, what's happening with your wife?

Where is everyone??

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MJM

I'm glad that things are looking up for your wife Otter. It sounded like a very difficult situation to say the least.

I drank on Sunday, mother's day. I was struck by cravings mid-afternoon. It was odd, but then maybe not surprising.

I have been incredibly busy with work for the last two weeks -- it has never been as busy as this. So the fatigue from long days  and my seemingly natural anxiety had me wound up.

I also missed an afternoon 25mg dose of Bac over two days earlier in the week.

On Sunday my wife sent me out to get some take-away chicken for lunch. There were a series of delays, from the place only taking cash (I didn't have any) to drivers in front of me cruising at 30km/h in a 50 zone. I got home really stressed and suddenly felt like a drink. I also started to think about mum. So, shortly after, I drank. For the next seven hours.

I am not worried about drinking per se; it's that it wasn't a conscious decision. I didn't decide to have a few drinks; my cravings decided for me that I needed to be drunk.

I haven't felt like a drink since. It's a common theme for me it seems: after a few months (nine weeks this time) I seem to reach a crisis point and drink. They have been a bit different each time, maybe no correlation. My mother's death has been hard for me, so I can't be too hard on myself.

I am not overly worried about it, it's rather what can I do to avoid reaching that point of anxiety again. Clearly Bac alone is not the answer for me. Anxiety and depression seem to creep up when I'm sober and Bac does nothing to counter either. I know two people whose depression worsened when taking Bac, I wonder if it has something to do with it. I'm not giving up on Bac though. I get the feeling that exercise would help, it's just getting the motivation to do it.

I'm on 175mg Bac per day, 8am: 50mg, 12pm: 25mg, 3pm: 25mg, 9pm: 75mg.

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Lostinspace

Otter - I’m glad you got your wife into a hospital and that they're giving her treatment. I hope this is the beginning of a return to stability for her.

MJM - I’m sorry about the drinking. I’m sure going through your first Mother’s Day without your mom kicked up some painful stuff underneath the surface while you had all those other stresses in your life to deal with. And you’re right that bac alone is not enough. I’m finding various ways of dealing with overwhelming life stress/anxiety - some healthy (exercise, like yoga, hiking and now dragon boating), and some not so healthy (like smoking weed, which I really should try harder to stop). As far as exercise goes, it really helped me to sign up for group classes/activities to make me follow through with doing it. I’m not sure how active meetup.com is down in Australia, but that’s how I found a couple groups. It’s worth checking out. Anyway, I’m glad you’re not being hard on yourself. A single day of drinking is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Ne - Are you alright? It’s unlike you to go so long without posting. Please drop in and let us know how you’re doing.

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SKendall

Otter, I'm so glad your wife got the help she needed.  It seems as if it has cooled down for now.  Is there any change in the status quo.?

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Ne1

Hiya, everyone! Sorry for my extended absence. Mini-meltdown resulting in inability to communicate about anything to anyone. But I'm much better this week, after spending the weekend with my parents. Though it was very fraught and anything but stress-free. Still, somehow, it always helps me to go "home". More on that, I suppose, when I actually get around to starting my own thread. <sigh> Must get better about posting. Oh, the irony, that after plunging head first into this new venture that is EOMA, I find myself having a really difficult time writing! 

I want to follow up on a couple of things. I responded to Otter's situation on the thread it was moved to, but know that you are in my thoughts, @Otter

@Lostinspace , I’m SO relieved about the response you got from your boss. And congratulations to you for sticking to it and not just giving in/giving up! Really, I’m so proud of you. (Don’t take that as condescending. I just mean that I wouldn’t have been able to handle it in your position and as well as you did. It makes me happy to know you! And to know that things like that can be handled well. It scares the shit out of me to think about going to work…)

As far as distracting myself from drinking, I am doing better with that and with not drinking, and not drinking to excess at all when I do drink. Easy-peasy at the moment.

@MJM I am sorry that you drank “against your will” on Sunday. I know how discouraging and alarming that can be after a period of contented sobriety. I will tentatively offer my thoughts and some advice, if you don’t mind. Early sobriety is hard, no matter how you achieve it. The fact that baclofen makes it (relatively) easy not to drink doesn’t mean that we don’t experience all of the ups and downs that other people do when they stop drinking…Mood swings, depression, increased anxiety, insomnia or sleeping too much, constipation/GI upset, irritability…Those things are a normal part of becoming sober and learning to live without booze. The amazing thing is that a lapse doesn’t mean it’s a relapse. I remember the first few times I got drunk after reaching indifference and it scared the hell out of me. I finally realized that it was “okay” in a way, and that it didn’t mean that I wasn’t getting well, or that baclofen didn’t work…It just meant I had more work to do to stay on track. Also, I’m going to start a thread on depression and medications either today or tomorrow. It’s something to think about if you’re struggling with anxiety/depression that doesn’t abate. I mean, if it’s consistent day in and day out. Many of us are going to experience intermittent anxiety/depression when we first get sober.  And even after. I mean, it's pretty realistic to know that sometimes life just sucks! (But that thought could be a result of my own ongoing depression. HA!) That doesn’t mean we have “clinical depression”, though. 

Also, as you said, exercise, exercise, exercise!!! It’s making a huge and almost immediate difference for me, when I do it. It’s f*cking amazing. I just have a really hard time making myself do it. But holy cow, do I feel better in every way when I do. It’s kind of annoying, actually. If only I could feel the way I do after exercise, before I actually do the exercise, it would be so much easier to exercise! Ya' know? 

Hi to all, and thanks for asking about me and offering advice and support for my continued goal toward abstinence. Still not totally AF, but drinking MUCH less and having more AF days. Haven't gotten drunk, or even had too much to drink, since my bender on the Saturday before last. (I think that's when it was?) It definitely helped to get out of the house over the weekend...But also, just trying really hard not to drink, or to put off the first drink for as long as possible. And to eat!!!

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Ne1

@SKendall, I don't really know where to respond because you've posted in several places about the stuff that's going on with you, so I just decided to bring it here.

I'm really sorry that you're struggling so much with money right now, and with managing your husband and associated drama...I TOTALLY get resenting him, and/or regretting the decision, to move away from your support system. I've done that, and more than once done it for Ed's job, and it had a dramatically negative effect on my life for the first couple of months/years after the moves. Not to mention the fact that he is the reason for the divorce, financial insecurity and much, much more. I know I read this on MWO, but didn't you say that you cut him off/out of your life in terms of regular communication? Have you been able to do that? Any movement on the house? 

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SKendall

I  know, Im all over the place.  I start reading one thread and inappropriately post.  Oh, well.  I'm in a bit of a funk.

Have reported freetobeme (whatever it is) SF. If more could report it, it might have an effect. There was a mass reporting of him just before he got banned.  I hate that he got Otter's info from here.

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StuckinLA

SK, I hope you continue posting anywhere and everywhere. I miss your voice. It soothes me, and makes me feel less alone. So please don't worry about which thread or whatever. Just please keep posting. I will find you, and read what you are saying. I am thinking about you, dear. 

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Missykc
11 hours ago, SKendall said:

I  know, Im all over the place.  I start reading one thread and inappropriately post.  Oh, well.  I'm in a bit of a funk.

Have reported freetobeme (whatever it is) SF. If more could report it, it might have an effect. There was a mass reporting of him just before he got banned.  I hate that he got Otter's info from here.

I reported him too. I also posted a couple of things to him. If he's not banned again I'm done with MWO. 

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Felina

I've reported him as well, every time he's posted.

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Ne1
14 hours ago, SKendall said:

I  know, Im all over the place.  I start reading one thread and inappropriately post.  Oh, well.  I'm in a bit of a funk.

I think it's more my problem than your problem, SK. I had to catch up on a week's worth of posts yesterday and I couldn't remember what I saw where. 

I'm sorry you're in a funk. What's going on? 

So I'll update about my visit to my parent's house last weekend. On the morning I was planning on leaving, they basically had an intervention of sorts. They've been helping us out financially, and I should have taken my exam AND gotten a job by now...My dad was pretty cool about it all. I mean, he was reasonable and logical and very supportive (even as they were telling me that they aren't going to continue to support me financially or otherwise until I take the exam.) But my mom was a totally different story. Holy shit y'all. She let it all hang out. And the stuff she said wasn't just mean (it was), it was also really manipulative. 

And here's the thing: My therapist and I don't spend a whole bunch of time delving into past stuff or blaming my parents and all that jazz, but that doesn't mean we haven't identified some of the stuff that happened when I was a kid as a precursor to where I am now. Ya' know what I mean? I know anyone who has done therapy for a while will get what I'm saying. I'm not blaming my parents for where I am today, I know it's my responsibility. But that doesn't mean that they didn't set this sh*t up for me when I was a kid. And as my mom was bringing up stuff that went back to 30+ years ago, I wanted to be like, "Well, whose fucking fault is that???" I mean, I was a KID for crying out loud. And the biggest irony? The fact that I'm clinically depressed, like diagnosed and official and whatnot, and my mom is a PSYCHOLOGIST and was still basically telling me that I needed to pull myself out of my "funk". 

So needless to say, not the best end to the visit. Which was already fraught and stressful because my mom tripped and fell on Saturday night and ended up in the ER until 4am and then Sunday was all kerfuffled and she was in a lot of pain. (She's fine now.) Anyway. It sucked. 

As for troll from MWO, well, whatever. I mean, the problem starts and ends with the fact that MWO doesn't monitor or take care of their business. It's no surprise that he is posting again. He's emailed and even texted me about information he wants me to share on this and the other forum. He also specifically blames me for getting him banned. Both of which are ironic and really funny, if you think about it. I stopped flagging and reporting his posts like a year ago, knowing that they wouldn't get a response. I didn't even see the post that got him banned. And the info he sent is the same kind of crap that he posted on MWO, meaning that it isn't new, relevant, factual or even very informative. As I said. Whatever. I'm just thankful we have a space here where we don't have to worry about that kind of thing. 

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time2quit
5 minutes ago, Ne1 said:

As for troll from MWO, well, whatever. I mean, the problem starts and ends with the fact that MWO doesn't monitor or take care of their business. It's no surprise that he is posting again. He's emailed and even texted me about information he wants me to share on this and the other forum. He also specifically blames me for getting him banned. Both of which are ironic and really funny, if you think about it. I stopped flagging and reporting his posts like a year ago, knowing that they wouldn't get a response. I didn't even see the post that got him banned. And the info he sent is the same kind of crap that he posted on MWO, meaning that it isn't new, relevant, factual or even very informative. As I said. Whatever. I'm just thankful we have a space here where we don't have to worry about that kind of thing. 

^^^^this^^^^  Sorry about the visit to your P's...... or happy..... not sure what to take away from that.  Except you probably know they're right.  So get your shit together.  Sorry if thats harsh but it is what it is....  I need to as well...  I guess we just can't keep playing the blame game....  never solves anything....  we all had fucked up child hoods.  You shoulda seen me and my sisters on Mothers day talking all kinds off shit about growing up.  All said in jest with a :02_EmoticonsHDcom::02_EmoticonsHDcom: but a lot of truth we were all laughing and mom shrugged it off as "we were so mistreated"  anyways it  really shouldn't be effecting us into our forties....  Love ya girl!  You can do it!  No delete button so here goes....

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Ne1
6 minutes ago, time2quit said:

...Except you probably know they're right.  So get your shit together.  Sorry if thats harsh but it is what it is....  I need to as well...  I guess we just can't keep playing the blame game....  never solves anything....  we all had fucked up child hoods.  

...

Love ya girl!  You can do it!  No delete button so here goes....

Yep. I needed to hear it, but not in the way my mom handled it. Still, you're right about playing the blame game. When I decompressed with my therapist on Wednesday, I told her that I wanted to respond to my mom about one very specific thing she said, and point out that in my mind, SHE was the one at fault for this specific thing. And my therapist asked me why I didn't just say it. But you know what? It's done. No reason to make her feel worse than she does already. If she wants to rewrite history so that it suits her better, so be it. Why would I even begin to rehash that shit now? It was too bad she felt like she needed to do it. (And shame on her for it. I mean, what good is a degree in psychology if you can't fucking see it in yourself? But you and I, and all, know that isn't how it works. Anyway.) 

Love you back. I know I can. And will. And I'm very glad you couldn't delete. :)

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Baclofenman
3 hours ago, Ne1 said:

 I mean, what good is a degree in psychology if you can't fucking see it in yourself? But you and I, and all, know that isn't how it works. 

Quote of the week....

Regards

 

Bacman

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