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The End of my Addiction

Determinator
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heya cats and kitties.  New on this forum and new with baclofen.  Out of frustration/desperation I managed to get Bac from my Doc just yesterday.

I'd love to quit drinking immediately but a history of nasty withdrawal has me worried,  so I'm trying to taper down once again.

My current dosage is 10mg 3X per day.  I realize I'll need to increase this tremendously to achieve success.

thank you all for your support and what you do here.  Especcially Neva.  thank you dear.

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Now I don't know the level of your current drinking.  I'll tell you my experience tho.  I was tapering for months after drinking 20 or more beers a day for years.  Lowest I could ever taper too was around 8 before nasty withdrawal symptoms would kick in regardless no matter how slow I went.  I really thought I was headed to the hospital if I wanted to ever have A AF day.  In comes Baclofen and gabapentin Friday of Super Bowl weekend.  Shaking in the doctors office  could barely fill out the intake questionnaire.  New Doctor you see as I hadn't been to one.  So I cook up a story how I got new insurance had to get a new Dr. cuz of new insurance and hey i'm on these to drugs already for tremors and spasticity for a previous trauma.  Oh i was spinning a yarn.  Must be a good storyteller but anyway I digress.  So I start taking them that day.  Felt perfect no withdrawal.  Next day birthday party.  Next day Super Bowl.  Needless to say I picked the wrong weekend to stop drinking as Steve McCroskey from airplane did for Glue. So had about a 12 pack a day each of those days.  Come Monday took my Meds and no worries.  Had already taken the week off work to dry out anyway so hammered down on 60mg of Bac a day  double your dose and 900mgs of gabapentin a day.  Experienced some welcome side effects like somnolence and even some of the vision shit was pretty cool.  Anyway lasted more than 30 days then decided to have a night and did.  woke up next day took my meds and was fine.  Well take from that what is helpful cuz I kinda got on a roll there.......

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wow,  that's quite the adventure there.  thanks once again.  I don't have gabapentin,  but I just as of 10 min ago increased my Bac to 20 mg and will do so 3X per day.

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Hey, Det and welcome! Glad you made it over here. I posted this on the other forum, but will post it here now (since you've obviously found us!). 

30mg/day is where a lot of people start. That was too much for me, and I started at 10mg/day.

Going up by 10-20mg/per week, assuming you don't have any side effects, is the general recommendation. There is a prescribing guide, with all the recommendations, written by doctors, found here: (It's the first link.)

If you can taper, that's probably a really good idea. That's how baclofen worked for me, in general. I just slowly stopped drinking as much until I finally decided to try a day without. That turned into two and then a week, and so on...It took me 4 months, though. Baclofen isn't a quick solution, but then again, what is? If there was one, we'd all be taking/doing it. 

If you can taper down and then maintain abstinence while you're titrating up that'd be helpful. And baclofen can (and will) help with any withdrawal symptoms. There's research that shows it's very effective for treating withdrawal. But however you decide to do it, the stuff works. Just don't expect it to happen overnight! (Dangit. ;) )

Keep in touch and let us know how it goes!

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hi Ne1 and thanks again.  yesterday was day one of being AF and I was going up too quick on the Bac.  I was insanely sick/shaky/nausiated and couldn't stop ralfing for hours.  

It was a horribly long day needless to say.  At least I can sort  of type today.  Will be going much more slowly on the titrating process that's for sure but hopefully the very worst

of AL detox is over with.  

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Sorry Det.  I guess I'm just a rare case.  Like I've said before I've got the constitution of a horse.  I still can't even fathom how bad these side effects are for everybody.  I'm an animal.. I'll tell ya.

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just the combo of quitting so much AL and ramping up the BAC at the same time gave me a scary reaction.  Holding down some food now at least.  

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16 minutes ago, Determinator said:

just the combo of quitting so much AL and ramping up the BAC at the same time gave me a scary reaction.  Holding down some food now at least.  

I would not recommend any "ramping" of titration

The recommended titration as citied by British Journal of Medicine & Medical Research 4(5): 1164-1174, 2014 - This is what I followed (generally)

There is a consensus that it is necessary to increase the dosage gradually and at a sufficiently slow rate. Generally one starts with small daily doses of about 10 or 15mg, then one increases to 30mg 3-4 days later and then increases by 10mg every 3 to 5 days until one reaches the therapeutic dose, which varies from one person to another and is unpredictable. There does not seem to exist any correlation between weight and dose.

Regards

 

Bacman

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1 hour ago, Determinator said:

thank you Bacman.  My 'instant gratification brain' at it's finest.  

Thanks, bacman. I don't know if I've read that before or if it's in the library. It probably is, but it needs to be, if it isn't. 

Det, there're very, very few of us who titrate up slowly, following any kind of reasonable schedule. Even the ones that start that way get impatient. I'll qualify the following comment with the fact that I've been reading MWO almost daily for 6 years, reading about baclofen and medications and AUDs for almost that long (and am still no expert)... 

More people have failed with baclofen because they took too much, too quickly, than that they took too little. Slow and steady wins this race. Many of us don't adhere to "abstinence at all costs", though we don't discourage it either. (Unless, of course, your withdrawal is likely to be really life-altering. Then it's best to see a doctor first, without question.) I know that's a different approach from a lot people's experience. 

I'll tell you from my own experience that baclofen can upset my stomach and now I make sure (or try) to take it with or after a meal. It helps to spread the doses out, particularly in the beginning, for many reasons. It has a short half-life... Taking too much at one time can bring on really unpleasant side effects...

This stuff isn't Antabuse. It shouldn't make you sick when you take it. It shouldn't make you sick if you drink after you've taken it. It works to balance your brain chemistry so that when you get to a certain point (different for all of us), your incentive, your desire, your will to drink is diminished to the point where you just feel like having a soda is the same as having a beer. It happens. For real.  

Slow and steady...

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On 30/04/2016 at 11:22 PM, Ne1 said:

Thanks, bacman. I don't know if I've read that before or if it's in the library. It probably is, but it needs to be, if it isn't. 

 

It is part of The Prescribing Guide for Baclofen in the Treatment of Alcoholism

Viewers will need to click on the Full Text link

Regards

 

Bacman

Edited by Baclofenman
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much better,  thanks dear one,  since I'm well over detoxing and have been very carefully logging my meds I'm doing great.

just began upping my dose last night.  I'm doing 10mg twice during the day,  then 20mg at night.  will maintain that for a few days.

hows things over yonder?

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Hi Det

What are your sleeping experiences taking Baclofen @ bedtime? - I did for a while but had a couple of mad dreams and the odd case of sleeping when I should have been peeing!! - Not too clever lol

I always take my last Baclofen tablet at least 3 hours before bed

Regards

 

Bacman

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Yeah I started to wet the bed one night but caught it pretty quick so it wasn't a big deal thank the universe.  But as you all know by now I started on 60 mgs a day and 900 mgs of gabby so I I'm surprised I didn't do it again or even frequently in the beginning.   Glad I didn't have to go get some depends!

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Bacman,  I've had some pretty crazy dreams for sure, but for me that's common after getting off the binge-wagon.  I seem to be sleeping fairly well now.  I take my last dose

right at bedtime.

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I only pissed myself once in bed. Don't know what you guys are talking about with "dreams" except for the giant carnivorous plant that swooped down to swallow me whole, while I was trying to shield my girlfriend. Who was dressed in a Sailor Moon costume and waiting to stab me in the throat. Anyway, I guess just deal with it?

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ha!  that dream sounds about right.  I've only wet the bed when really super drunk a few times....so fun.  One thing I've noticed on BAC is smells seem a little different.

Anyone experienced this?

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3 hours ago, Determinator said:

ha!  that dream sounds about right.  I've only wet the bed when really super drunk a few times....so fun.  One thing I've noticed on BAC is smells seem a little different.

Anyone experienced this?

Nothing on the smell side IME

I think my dreams are anxiety linked - They are pretty odd and fortunately few and far between

There are some citations on Baclofen effecting the urinary sphincter muscle (stop laughing) causing a trickle or two with the need to pee coming on pretty quickly - I am not too worried about it tbh - Its more of an annoyance

Regards

 

Bacman

 

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I think that the link between peeing in bed and baclofen has as much to do with either titrating up really quickly (I think bacman went from 0-150mg in two weeks, right?) and/or drinking while taking bac. Not that it has to be those two things exclusively, but just generally increases the risk of that rather alarming (and downright yucky) side effect. 

Definitely crazy dreams!

And no, I don't remember it affecting my smell, but definitely the taste of things changed for a while. Generally, these kind of SEs abate with time...

How are you doing, Det? 

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5 hours ago, Ne1 said:

I think that the link between peeing in bed and baclofen has as much to do with either titrating up really quickly (I think bacman went from 0-150mg in two weeks, right?) and/or drinking while taking bac. 

No way Jose

I read all the stuff tk had put up and in particular the French prescription guide Otter translated

10mg for 3 days then 20mg for three days etc

One of the reasons I feel a fraud is that I sleep - Boy do I sleep - No somnolence during the day, just 6 or seven hours of heavy sleep - Too heavy on occasions - I drink a lot of fluids, some late at night which is what I put it down to and have tried to eliminate in addition to no Baclofen four hours before sleep

5 hours ago, Ne1 said:

Definitely crazy dreams!

Remember the one I sent you an email at 3 in the morning because I knew I would forget it in the morning - It was a real anxiety dream and fucking real - Boy was i relieved when I woke up and found it was only a dream

Regards

 

Bacman

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17 hours ago, Baclofenman said:

I read all the stuff tk had put up and in particular the French prescription guide Otter translated

10mg for 3 days then 20mg for three days etc

One of the reasons I feel a fraud is that I sleep - Boy do I sleep - No somnolence during the day, just 6 or seven hours of heavy sleep - Too heavy on occasions - I drink a lot of fluids, some late at night which is what I put it down to and have tried to eliminate in addition to no Baclofen four hours before sleep

Remember the one I sent you an email at 3 in the morning because I knew I would forget it in the morning - It was a real anxiety dream and fucking real - Boy was i relieved when I woke up and found it was only a dream

That's interesting and I'm glad you clarified. I guess I don't really know your story concerning baclofen and how/when you stopped drinking. 

No reason to feel a fraud. There was a period of time, on the lower doses, when baclofen really helped my sleep and I wasn't experiencing somnolence. Unfortunately, I was still drinking...

I remember the night you sent me the email about your dream. But I'll tell you a short story that takes the cake. (Not to one up you, but it's funny.) There was a member on MWO who I shouldn't name (@bleep) who had a nightmare that he was like MacGyver and acted it out, basically sleep walking, but was acting like there was an intruder. Scared his wife half to death. We're in different time zones, so we spent the rest of (his) night on the chat function of MWO because he was so freaked out. It wasn't funny in the moment, but it's very funny now. I wonder if he remembers it? 

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not doing so slick here kids.  decided to pick up the booze again and test the bac.  just so damn dumb I know.  super sick again.  wife is getting benzoes.  doc would only approve

6 of them without seeing me and I'm too sick to drive.  just hate the nausea.  so sick.  

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