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Ne1

Ne's Progress Thread

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SKendall

Ne, I'm glad for you.  I'm not good with grudges either.  This was an empowering moment for you and I think your meds are working.

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Felina
12 hours ago, Molly78 said:

Ne, what does "I had his back" mean? Sorry to be stupid.

It means she supported him and stood by him. 

@Ne1I've had a lot going on in the last few days and am just catching up with these posts. Very powerful stuff.

Edited by Felina
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Molly78

Thanks, Felina.

There's a saying in the UK "to put his back up" which means to annoy someone, which didn't make sense, now it does.

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Missykc

I'm catching up here. Ne, I hear you about making a list and getting things done. I can make the list easy enough. I just don't motivate to check the items off even though I know I feel great when I check them off. 

I thought I became antisocial with baclofen  but I think I was always an introvert and masked it with alcohol. I have been making an effort to be social and to get a reality check with others.  It's not easy for me but I think I benefit.  

Anyway, I'm not on here much and the posts stack up for me.  I do hope to make time to copy and paste my story here.

 

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Molly78
1 hour ago, Missykc said:

 

I thought I became antisocial with baclofen  but I think I was always an introvert and masked it with alcohol. I have been making an effort to be social and to get a reality check with others.  It's not easy for me but I think I benefit.  

 

This is exactly like me. I'm afraid I'm not making too much effort to be social because I don't see the need. It's a relief not to have to socialise.

However when I have to, I can function socially. Just about.

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Felina

That's me as well, @Missykc and @Molly78. My introversion became pretty extreme without the alcohol, and the baclofen produced a lack of affect. To this day I feel stoned. I still have social anxiety and it's easier for me to stay at home. That's one reason I want to experiment with gabapentin and/or naltrexone, so I can taper my baclofen dose down. I'd really like to be at 60-80 mgs/day. 

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time2quit

@Felina  I'm on 80/mgs  of bac and 2400/mgs of gabapentin and things are going well.  Not quite AF but considerably better than I once was.  I really think the combo is better than one alone.  Also it's easier to get a doc to stay within prescribing guidelines this way.  My .02 cents on the issue.

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Missykc
1 hour ago, Molly78 said:

This is exactly like me. I'm afraid I'm not making too much effort to be social because I don't see the need. It's a relief not to have to socialise.

However when I have to, I can function socially. Just about.

I am sometimes surprised that I have fun socializing. And other times it wears me out. 

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Molly78
31 minutes ago, time2quit said:

@Felina  I'm on 80/mgs  of bac and 2400/mgs of gabapentin and things are going well.  Not quite AF but considerably better than I once was.  I really think the combo is better than one alone.  Also it's easier to get a doc to stay within prescribing guidelines this way.  My .02 cents on the issue.

T2Q, could you say a bit about your experience with gaba? I have just started taking it - buying online, no hope of getting a psychiatrist in the UK to take an interest in prescribing for alcoholism, either bac or anything else. I am on 120 mg bac, don't want to increase further. I have started a thread entitled Gabapentin, asking for others' experiences but no one has come forward yet.

I have got up to 1200 mg over the past week (3x400 mg) with an extra 400 mg at night, but not feeling much benefit at the moment, thinking of giving it up & increasing the bac after all as it seems better to be on just one med than two. I am wary of polypharmacy, fell it messes with brain chemistry too much - we know so little about how many of the psych drugs really work.

I am not AF either, still struggle a bit with keeping within recommended limits (14 units a week in the UK), but like you, doing a lot better than I was 2 1/2 years ago before starting bac. Then on a bottle & a half of wine + every night.

Thanks.

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time2quit

I have to run some errands and hit up a graduation party in a few.  I will post on your gabby thread when able.  Wish me luck people  prolly gonna have too many beers but hey, I'm not ready to be sober at a party just yet.....

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Ne1
On 6/10/2016 at 2:25 PM, SKendall said:

Ne, I'm glad for you.  I'm not good with grudges either.  This was an empowering moment for you and I think your meds are working.

Thanks, SK. It was pretty empowering. Though after a couple of days, I realized that I also said some stuff that was intentionally mean/spiteful--so not quite the balanced argument I perceived right after the fact.

On 6/11/2016 at 10:19 AM, Missykc said:

I thought I became antisocial with baclofen  but I think I was always an introvert and masked it with alcohol. I have been making an effort to be social and to get a reality check with others.  It's not easy for me but I think I benefit.  

I've seen you post about the fact that you thought baclofen made you introverted. I've never commented on it, because at first I thought you might have been projecting something as a SE, when it wasn't. But since then, I've started to wonder if I am actually an introvert and never knew it. So I had to wonder if it was the baclofen making me introverted and socially uncomfortable or my personality. And I think I am actually an introvert, or have become introverted over the years. Which I never would have imagined of myself. Maybe because I was drinking and therefore comfortable socializing? Or maybe I just wasn't as self-reflective and astute as I've always believed myself. Whatever the case, I realized over the 4 years that I was sober that I didn't enjoy going to parties or large social events. Or anything loud enough to drown out conversation. (I think that last is just a function of age, though. HA!) We both would much rather entertain at our house than go out, too. 

 

On 6/11/2016 at 0:38 PM, Felina said:

To this day I feel stoned. I still have social anxiety and it's easier for me to stay at home. That's one reason I want to experiment with gabapentin and/or naltrexone, so I can taper my baclofen dose down. I'd really like to be at 60-80 mgs/day. 

Do you really still feel stoned? I think that's one of the reasons Ed is so reluctant to take more bac. That and the fact that he doesn't remember how good life was (and how much money we saved!) when we didn't drink regularly. Very annoying, that. 

I think if I was still drinking a lot every night, I might have stuck with the naltrexone despite the nausea. Not sure why I decided to try nal first, except maybe that there is so much more info/research on it than gabapentin. It's not extremely compelling, despite what the die-hard TSMers say, but there's enough research to suggest that it works for some people. And when it works, it really works well. 

Gabapentin is used off label for a lot of different things--depression, anxiety... I'm not sure why I decided to try nal first. Especially since I really need the endorphin high from exercising, because I have to start exercising regularly.

On 6/11/2016 at 1:49 PM, time2quit said:

I have to run some errands and hit up a graduation party in a few.  I will post on your gabby thread when able.  Wish me luck people  prolly gonna have too many beers but hey, I'm not ready to be sober at a party just yet.....

T2Q, hope you had fun at the party and didn't drink too many beers! 

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Ne1

I'm at my parent's house in Baltimore. Got here on Friday and staying for awhile, I think. They're going out of town on Tuesday, but we have tickets for Yo Yo Ma here on Wednesday, so I'll stay here at least through then. Unfortunately, Ed scheduled a meeting for his entire department on that day, despite the fact that we talked about this concert two months ago. <sigh> He's going to drive like the wind to get here on time, but very unlikely that he'll make it. I'm kinda pissed about it. (Angry, not drunk, Brits.) 

We really do suck at communicating. And it is a direct result of booze. It's amazing how different our relationship is when we're drinking. I mean, I know I've been depressed for most of the last year and a half and that doesn't help, but the more I look at our woes, I see the bottom of the bottle as the culprit, even though we're not drinking that much (comparatively speaking). 

I got drunk 4 days ago (Wed). But the three days before that only had 1 or 2. (I know what you're thinking, "Why bother, ffs?" But it is what it is.) Thursday I had a beer and abstinent since then--today makes day 3. Won't drink tomorrow, either. So will have 4 days before my folks go out of town. 

However, I'm definitely not indifferent, (320mg), which is very discouraging. I'm wondering if my first stop after dropping them at the airport is going to be to pick up beer. I may try the ol' "just last through the craving and it'll go away" trick, but just writing about it makes me want to drink right now.

You guys that are indifferent must understand how desperate I am for that, right? But those that don't, well, I can't really explain it. Booze just doesn't matter at all. And it happens like magic. So it's hard to fight to abstain when for 4 years it didn't matter to me. I know that sounds like an excuse. But, well, I feel like it's legit. Especially since I'm only over-drinking two or three days a week. I still hate it, and want to be abstinent. But the will power thing? Man, I suck at that. But THAT definitely sounds like an excuse. But whatever. Gonna try but no promises. 

Parents and I went out to dinner last night and while my dad was parking my mom asked me if it would bother me if she got a glass of wine. (No. Not at all.) I wasn't going to have one, though, and remarked to her how much better life was when Ed and I didn't drink regularly...Dad shows up and suggests we get a pitcher of sangria, and I'm like, "HELL YES!"  xD Not gonna lie, I will take any excuse, y'all. Fortunately, because of our discussion, and the fact that my dad has some health problems right now (long story) my mom was like, "Nope. Not gonna do it." So we didn't. And it was okay. I still would've liked some sangria, though. I hate that just thinking about it makes me want it. 

Gotta go study for exam. 

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Baclofenman

Ne, That is awesome mate - The first 3 or 4 days are the hardest.....

<sigh>

Ok, I wont preach my bollox to you - (you have heard it all before (many times lol)) You know what you got to do - I am just, well chuffed for you - Well pleased A) You and your mum did not fight and (most importantly) B) You turned down the Sangria and the Vino - You turned down booze and lived to relate the tale - Bet you feel good about it now (sorry I know I said I would not preach)

Wednesday will be day 6 - Roll on Wednesday

Excellent

Regards

 

Bacman

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StuckinLA

Ah yes, the counting of the days. Guess I probably ought to come clean - I fell of the wagon on Friday night. Went to a birthday party last night, and the girl dropped me off at home after. She says she's "devastated" because I am not still continuously abstinent. Well, it is what it is. Doesn't mean I'm completely giving up, even though part of me really wants to just give up.

The other night we went to see this new documentary: How to Let Go of the World. i wanted to see it so bad, so I dragged her to it. I kept glancing over, and she was crying through most of it - because she hasn't followed climate change like I have, so most of this was probably news to her. But there was one part where the guy - Josh Fox - is interviewing this chick on the Great Wall of China, and he starts to break down. He's like "all I wanted to do was stay at home." And he did - he just wanted to stay at home in the forests of Delaware. And he felt guilty for that. "Because there's so much more to do."

Sometimes that kind of thinking gives me strength - because there is so much more to do. That's why I haven't given up on the book I'm writing. That's why I keep signing up to volunteer with political campaigns - first Bernie's and now I'm getting myself on the volunteer list for Jill Stein. Yeah, I'm drinking this weekend. But there is so much more to do.

Just needed to get that out there. Love y'all.

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Molly78

OK so you (Ne & Stuck) are neither "continuously abstinent" or "indifferent". Neither am I.

 

Guys, are we reaching for the moon here? I know some of us on this forum are both (& congrats to you), but the rest of the world isn't. It's only AA who preach the "alcohol free for life" theme.

I would love to be genuinely indifferent,  but I'm trying to be happy that I manage to keep mainly within recommended guidelines for alcohol intake (14 units a week in the UK, that's 350 mls vodka or similar spirit).

My OCD wants me to  be both totally abstinent AND indifferent. I've spent my entire life trying to be the best at everything, to succeed, to overcome all obstacles. And look where it got me......I became an alcoholic.

Now here I am on an alcoholics forum discussing with fellow alkies how we can reach the ultimate goal - lifelong indifference & abstinence - & it's beginning to sound almost competitive, like "Oh no, I didn't get an A in my studies this week (I fell off the wagon), next week I'm going to do better, I'm really going to achieve NO ALCOHOL AT ALL!"

I mean, should we relax a little & accept that 3-4 alcohol free days a week (well done Ne!) are what the rest of the world accepts as pretty good going.

 

Just a thought. I'm as obsessional as the rest of you about this business, I'm just asking, do we need to be? If bac let's us drink like normal people, isn't that a good thing?

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StuckinLA
16 minutes ago, Molly78 said:

I would love to be genuinely indifferent,  but I'm trying to be happy that I manage to keep mainly within recommended guidelines for alcohol intake (14 units a week in the UK, that's 350 mls vodka or similar spirit).

Jesus - a week? 350mls is a morning for me.

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Baclofenman

@Molly78

Hi Molly

Being honest, I cannot understand this whole moderation thing - But that is no secret - With this in mind I am always keen to encourage abstinence, Period - For someone like Ne, who has really struggled this time round with depression to boot, I do not feel encouragement and a push towards the abstinent route would be out of order - I mean, surely there is a better chance of reaching indifference being AF than not? - I would have thought?

I mean, what is the point in being "indifferent" to alcohol and then drinking - I am sure tk will disagree

On last think - You mention becoming an alcoholic - For me you do not become an alcoholic - Its not like a dose of the clap or a common cold - You either are or you are not - Its genetic, you are born with it - It is inherent in your make up - The world may accept x y & z units a week (depending on where you are and which way the wind is blowing) But alcoholics are just that - Alcoholics

Just my take

Regards

 

Bacman

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StuckinLA

I don't know that I necessarily agree with that, @Baclofenman. Sometimes it's possible, I believe, to drink oneself into alcoholism. Saying you're born with it is buying into a lot of the character-defect business of AA. The "ism" of alcoholism, as they say. Nevertheless, no one is going to argue with the idea that not drinking is better than drinking, even a little now and again.

Honestly, I don't care about the drinking. I care about the things that drinking keeps me from doing. If I were writing and finishing the things I say I want to finish, I've not a care in the world about how much whiskey I'm going through as those things get finished.

And there were about a dozen first-person pronouns in that last sentence. So that's the character-defect speaking: ego.

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Baclofenman
4 minutes ago, StuckinLA said:

And there were about a dozen first-person pronouns in that last sentence. So that's the character-defect speaking: ego.

I am not quite sure what that means Stuck - I imagine that if I knew what it was I would be offended. But I do not,so I am not ;)

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StuckinLA

No man, no offense! Just means that "we" alcoholics are self-centered egomaniacs, and I proved them right by talking about me me me in every single post!

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Baclofenman
8 minutes ago, StuckinLA said:

I don't know that I necessarily agree with that, @Baclofenman. Sometimes it's possible, I believe, to drink oneself into alcoholism.

So you are not in the Alcoholism being Genetic camp in the slightest?

Regards

 

Bacman 

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Baclofenman
Just now, StuckinLA said:

No man, no offense! Just means that "we" alcoholics are self-centered egomaniacs, and I proved them right by talking about me me me in every single post!

None taken - I knew what you meant :)

Regards

 

Bacman

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StuckinLA

The genetics certainly play a role - but maybe not an exclusive role?

Again, my story completely contradicts my argument. My mother is an alcoholic, her father was an alcoholic, I'm an alcoholic. Doesn't take a geneticist to make the connection there. But I don't think people are born as alcoholics - mostly because of the AA bullshit. To say we are incapable of being honest, or that we have other defects of character, even before the first drink. Well, I bristle at that kind of patronizing shit, even if it turns out to be true.

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DunDrinkn

Greetings! Just a quick drop in. Will post more later.

Stuck -- First, there is a documentary I saw recently called "love the nature". It looks like it's screening later in June in Orange County. Here's the website http://www.lovethynature.com/screening. Check it out and please take your girlfriend. You may decide it's bullshit, but it will at least keep her from killing herself over the environment. It is a tad bit hopeful on the environment, and while it might be a stitch, it is interesting and science-based while also spiritual and holistic.

The trip was awesome. Very healing for my brother and myself (I'll expand on this later). Also great time with my kids. I drank on this trip. Every other night I had a beer at dinner and the kids shared it with me. I had 23 or 24 days of AF when this happened. It didn't throw me into cravings. I didn't want more than what I ordered. In fact, the last night of the trip my brother ordered me a second beer when I went the the bathroom, and I only took a few sips out of it and made him finish it. I haven't had anything now for 2 days, and I don't want anything. Will let you know if anything changes, but I'd call that indifferent. 

I'm steady on 120 mg. of Bac and 1,500mg of Gaba. The Gaba for me has made all the difference. In my mood, lack of anxiety, lack of nerve pain, and general sense of pretty-darn-goodness. Will post more later. My partner has had some major health issues, as has my daughter. My son may either be gay, or just very metro-sexual. I'm a lesbian, so having a gay child is not a huge deal, but it is a little odd because it just never occurred to me that this was possible (clueless much?). Anyway, my point is that I haven't wanted to drink because of any of this, or to deal with any of this. 

So far, so good. Love the liveliness on the forum. Right on!

 

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StuckinLA
3 minutes ago, DunDrinkn said:

Anyway, my point is that I haven't wanted to drink because of any of this, or to deal with any of this. 

Rock the fuck on, sister. :)

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Molly78

Bacman, I was AF for several weeks at the beginning of my treatment with bac this time round (Dec 2013).  The first time I tried it in 2010/11 I was drinking & I didn't get anywhere, I reached quite high doses,  about 300 mg (I'm a small person)  & eventually gave up. I have said several times on MWO that the bac works to quell your cravings much more efficiently if you're not drinking. I think I've suggested this gently to Ne as well, but I know she is struggling

Having said that, once you have realised you don't have to drink alcoholically, you have to live the rest of your life, & let's face it, alcohol is very much a part of the social scene for most people. It's really nice to be able to have a few glasses of wine with friends.

What I struggle with is habit, the inclination to have a drink because it's wine o'clock & you've had a  hard day. I'm in two  minds as to whether i should struggle with this at all,   given that now that I am on bac, I can't go beyond 3-4 units at a time. For my own satisfaction, I would like  to overcome this, which is what I meant by aiming high, trying to be the best - hell, if I'm not going to enjoy a drink, I'm going to go  the full mile & Be The Best ie AF.

I agree there is an important genetic element to alcoholism, a personality type you are born with, but I do think a certain type of competitive education & upbringing & a particular lifestyle, including mixing with people who accept drinking as the norm brings it to fruition. I'm thinking of my mum, who was much like me personality wise. However, she was pulled out of education at 14 to care for her own mother, married young & was at home with children ion the 50's  when no one had alcohol  in the house, &r middle class people did not go down the pub on a Friday night. She "discovered" wine when she was in her late 60's & her intake increased quite rapidly up to the point of her death at 73 (not from alcohol related causes!) I think she just never had the "opportunity" to become an alkie - but I'm fairly sure she had the disposition!

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Baclofenman

@Molly78

Hi Molly

Yes - Something I have yet to come up against - The peer pressure - Easily led me lol - I do agree, its all very well me going on about abstinence when I have not really put it to the test yet - I know that is not what you said but in reality, it would be what I was thinking viewing my posts!!

Ah wine O'clock - Never drank before noon me, unless I had not stopped from the night before

Regards

 

Bacman

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Molly78

Also,  Bacman, the thing about "encouraging abstinence" is that things got a bit nasty on MWO at one point (people aren't as polite over there as they are here, as you  have probably noticed!) around the argument that it's better to be abstinent,some maintaining that "it's not necessary, Ameisen wasn't abstinent, you can keep drinking" as though the suggestion of abstinence itself caused offence.

Hence I have been fairly quiet about my feelings - which are that yes, absolutely, it's MUCH easier to get going if you lay off the alcohol, you can titrate up faster with fewer SE. 

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Baclofenman

Hi Molly

Yes, I take the point

I am new to all this malarkey so I probably ask the same old questions and create the same old debate

Regarding what is right and what is wrong is always going to cause issues - If its perspective its contentious - Gosh, I was involved in a motor forum where it ALWAYS kicked off (and I mean kicked off) when types of engine oil was mentioned FFS - Get a life 

I generally try to caveat any posts that may get me into trouble with IMO or whatever works for you... But it is true, we are all different, some find AA works, some moderate some are abbers - No one fits all - As long as something fits....

Regards

 

Bacman

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Missykc
3 hours ago, Molly78 said:

OK so you (Ne & Stuck) are neither "continuously abstinent" or "indifferent". Neither am I.

 

Guys, are we reaching for the moon here? I know some of us on this forum are both (& congrats to you), but the rest of the world isn't. It's only AA who preach the "alcohol free for life" theme.

I would love to be genuinely indifferent,  but I'm trying to be happy that I manage to keep mainly within recommended guidelines for alcohol intake (14 units a week in the UK, that's 350 mls vodka or similar spirit).

My OCD wants me to  be both totally abstinent AND indifferent. I've spent my entire life trying to be the best at everything, to succeed, to overcome all obstacles. And look where it got me......I became an alcoholic.

Now here I am on an alcoholics forum discussing with fellow alkies how we can reach the ultimate goal - lifelong indifference & abstinence - & it's beginning to sound almost competitive, like "Oh no, I didn't get an A in my studies this week (I fell off the wagon), next week I'm going to do better, I'm really going to achieve NO ALCOHOL AT ALL!"

I mean, should we relax a little & accept that 3-4 alcohol free days a week (well done Ne!) are what the rest of the world accepts as pretty good going.

 

Just a thought. I'm as obsessional as the rest of you about this business, I'm just asking, do we need to be? If bac let's us drink like normal people, isn't that a good thing?

I think I was indifferent after a bit of time on baclofen. I also didn't drink alone at home and my friends knew it was important to me that I not over drink. 

Now that I'm not on baclofen drinking is a choice I make. Mainly I don't drink because I have things I want to do. I have drank at home and even 3 glasses of wine make me unmotivated and down the next day. And it's hard to train on my schedule feeling that way. 

Molly, I wonder if it makes a difference why we drink. I usually drank because I was angry or bored or out of habit. I also don't want to get drunk and act like an ass. 

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