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The End of my Addiction

First day on Baclofen


Jetsman32
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Hi All,

    Hope everyone is doing well. Yesterday my order of Baclofen finally came in the mail! I was so excited to get it and decided to start it today. So, I've now been clear of alcohol for 9 days straight - which I'm pretty proud of. Anyway, during this time I've still been dosing phenibut daily- usually around 3-4 grams to maintain my sanity (this is a fairly high dose). On top of that I take a ton of herbs like passion flower, l-theanine and Valerian.  I also use aniracetam- a nootropic for mood improvement and klonopin (although I've hardly touched it over the last week).

     I read a lot of places that phenibut and baclofen have a very similar chemical composition but didn't want to risk having them on the same day (couldn't find any info on the web about combining the two)- that is why I waited until today to start. I was really scared of a bad reaction. So instead, I stopped phenibut cold turkey and started today on the baclofen. I'm starting my dosage at 30mg per day (10mg X3 times per day). I know it is recommended to start a bit slower but I did some research and figured that the phenibut tolerance I've built up would make it necessary to avoid some really bad withdrawal symptoms associated with Phenibut.

    So far I've dosed twice today. Initial side effects are mild naseau and some slight tingling in my left arm. Other than that it's been fine. I should also add that I was prescribed a 6 day treatment of prednisone (oral steroid) for my back which I started today as well so the side effects could be coming from that. 

     I've still been using my other stuff today. Had 2 servings of aniracetam and l-theanine but have still avoided the klonopin. My anxiety is definitely there today- i can tell i'm not on phenibut for sure but it is almost manageable.

     Anyway, I took my first 10mg this morning at 7am, my second at 1:00pm and will take my 3rd at 7:00pm. In reading through these pages I saw that peeing the bed is a possible side effect as well as bad dreams so I'm making sure my final dose is well before bed (11:00pm). Anyone else had these side effects?

     My one huge fear is that I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight. Phenibut has a really long half life and allowed me to get to bed and fall asleep quickly. I'm worried the withdrawals are going to have me up all night once the last dose of baclofen wears off. I stopped and picked up some melatonin though and if it comes to it, I will take the Klonopin just to get some rest (I fly out to Boston tomorrow for a business trip).

     My plan is to still titrate slowly. I will use 30mg for 3 days then move up to 40mg for 3 days and so on. I've even created a dosage calendar for myself so I can hold myself accountable. I've also met some awesome people on here that have been very supportive so I think this plan will work.

     Three big questions

1) Does that sound like a good plan- if not- be honest!

2) Any suggestions for withdrawals and getting to bed?

3) Am I mixing any herbs with baclofen that could lead to a bad reaction?

 

    Really hoping the baclofen works for me. Thanks everyone!

     

      

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Hi Jetsman,

Glad you got your baclofen! A couple of things I want to suggest. I've never taken phenibut so I don't know anything about its withdrawals, but if it's anything like benzo withdrawals, I would REALLY suggest that you taper down on it rather than go cold turkey. Baclofen isn't probably going to do much for you at first. You have to build up to that. And if you rush the baclofen titration, you risk horrible side effects from that as well, side effects that could derail your whole baclofen experience. I've seen so many people rush up on baclofen and then give up once the bad side effects hit them. It can take a few days for baclofen dosage increases to cause the worst side effects. So don't expect the baclofen to replace all the other things right off the bat.  My suggestion would be to take a lesser dose of phenibut to sleep while you go up in baclofen, and try tapering down a little bit every day.

 

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Thank you, I appreciate the advice. Phenibut withdrawal is very comporable to benzo withdrawal.  Im just really scared to mix the two. However I do have some  klonopin and I plan to use that if I need to. I did notice that for at least a few hours after my baclofen dose my anxiety is lessened but after that it comes back with force. Ive read some of the horror stories of people that titrated up to quickly- I will not go down that road!

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I will take it very slow Stuck- thanks for all of your help. Last night was awful (as expected). Took Valerian and melatonin before bed but was still wide awake at 130 so popped 2mgs klonopin. It helped, I was out within 45 minutes. Had to be up this morning at 630 to get to the airport so I think I got about 4 hours. Hoping I can catch up on a bit more sleep during the flights. Phenibut withdrawal is a bitch! 

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I second Felina's suggestion of not going cold turkey on the phenibut. Titrate that down as you titrate the bac up.

Melatonin plus valerian plus klonopin (think that's like diazepam?) all good for sleep if needed & won't interfere with the bac.

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Yes, Klonopin is similar to Diazepam. I will definitely be taking it again tonight to sleep. I think i might also take a low dose (1g) of phenibut about 4 hours before bed- it usually takes that long to kick in then titrate down from there. I appreciate the reply.

On my 2nd day of Baclofen- no side effects today except a headache which I believe is from a lack of caffeine. I typically drink 5-6 cups of coffee a day and since I was traveling to Boston it's been all water.

I arrived at my hotel room about 30 minutes ago- feels like a prison cell. There is a great hotel bar downstairs, a liquor store across the street and a mini-bar in my room.  Something very ironic happened on my drive to the hotel. I had a friend drown (die) in a swimming pool late last year. He was an alcoholic. Anyway on the ride to the hotel today my GPS brought me right by his old apartment and it's never had me go that route before. God maybe? Hell I don't know. Going to stay strong though and get through this. Thank you!

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Jetsman - So glad to hear that your bac arrived and that you’ve started on it! I think starting on 30 mg is reasonable given your phenibut tolerance, but like the others have suggested, slow and steady wins the race. It sounds like you have a good plan to start with, now that you’re tapering the phenibut instead of quitting cold turkey. I would also suggest (please don’t hate me!) that you might want to slowly cut back on the coffee over time. I used to down about six cups of coffee each day, too, and while my anxiety never went away after scaling back to only one cup first thing in the morning, it definitely made a huge difference! Your experience might be different. I know people who can drink coffee and go straight to bed, but then again, those people aren’t anxious by nature. Anyway, keep us posted on your progress.

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Oh dear God, don't stop the coffee. I drink at least a pot a day. So, what is that, 8+ cups/day?

It is the only pleasure I have in life.

 

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Thanks Lostinspace - appreciate the advice. Forgot to mention, besides my coffee I also drink 2-3 diet cokes per day. Starting Monday my wife and I have decided to quit soda together so that will be a good start to cutting down on the caffeine. Seriously like Stuck said, I don't know if I could survive my job without my coffee! Maybe I'll just try to have my last cup by 5pm so that I get better rest. Have to start somewhere!

One quick question- when I do eventually titrate up to 40mg per day. How the heck do you cut that into 3 equal doses? Do I take 10.5 in the morning, 10 at noon and 10.5 at night? It's kind of hard to break a pill into three equal sections. Do some of you dose more than 3 times per day to make it work? I'm probably over thinking this but wondering how you all did it to get your dosages even.

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Pill cutter. $3 at Walgreens. And one of those little pill boxes, also like $3. Seriously. It's a major reduction of headaches. Just sort your doses for the whole week.

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9 minutes ago, Jetsman32 said:

Do some of you dose more than 3 times per day to make it work? I'm probably over thinking this but wondering how you all did it to get your dosages even.

Bleep used to take his doses every 2 hours. I'd have to go way back deep into MWO to quote him, but he liked to take pills all the time, basically. He felt that really alleviated the side effects. You've got a little while before you have to worry about that, but once you're in the higher doses people have their own way of doing their thing.

For me, I chose Sunday. Sunday I would put out all my pills for the week into the little pill organizer like an elderly person. Then I would just take what was in the fucking box during the day. That helped me a lot, to not over-think it. You know? Sunday was my day to rationally plan everything out, then during the week I trusted myself, trusted that I figured it all out on Sunday. And then I just Kept Taking The Goddamned Pills.

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Awesome info. I like to be on a schedule so for me, 3 equal doses per day roughly 6-7 hours apart will keep me in line. I will get the stuff from Walgreens and pack my kit on Sunday as suggested.  I mentioned it above though and am still wondering, do you take it close to bed time? My God if I peed the bed my wife would go insane. However, the effects of Baclofen seem to be short (6 hours) so I don't want my last dose to be at 7pm and wake up withdrawals around 1pm. Would that be normal?

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Nah you'll be all right. Some folks avoided a late, pre-bedtime dose. The insomnia is real, not going to lie. But you just have to figure out something fun to do at 3 or 4 am. Seriously. You just deal, and if you've got some reading to do, or some online shit, or whatever you can actually do it in the middle of the night. Or come on here. People are always around. 

And I never pissed the bed except for once, and that was not baclofen related. So you'll be OK.

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Oh also - you're going to have to look this up or talk to TerryK, but baclofen withdrawal is a multi-day process. It's not really about the ½ life or the time it's actually active in your system. It's more about a steady amount over a period of time that you're taking. So don't expect it to "wear off" like benzos or other meds. It's weird, but trust in it and you will be fine. 

I'm not explaining this well at all. Sorry.

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You might look into taking bac 4 times a day. Just set a phone alarm and use a pill box like Stuck suggested. Don't trust yourself to remember. Bac plays with your memory, especially when you're titrating up. If you have a pill box and a phone alert you won't have to second-guess yourself. And the more organized you are, the better your bac experience will be. 

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This is all awesome advice! I didn't realize that Baclofen didn't work like some other drugs (I'm always thinking half life). I'm so used to thinking of my drugs in terms of short term effectiveness but this makes perfect sense.  Love the idea for an alarm on my phone and will be getting a pill box/cutter immediately. 

Totally agree- the insomnia is awful. Just (finally) started reading the Game of Thrones series so I have at least 4 books to keep me going until that dies down. If any of you don't watch the series you should start........but anyway.

Thanks for the help everyone. I know I'm asking a lot of rookie style questions here but really want to try to do it the right way the first time. I'm also going to go back and read some more older threads on the forum- there is gold in there!

 

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Spreading out more keeps a more even dose in your system. If I were you I'd take a slightly higher dose at bedtime and spread out the rest evenly through the day.

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Thanks Felina-  that's great advice and I think I'd be more comfortable at 4 times a day so my final dose would be right before bed. That way I'd feel like I'd have a constant flow. When I do titrate up to 40mg per day that is the way I will go. Thanks Stuck for alleviating my issues about dosing close to bed time.

Also- still in my hotel room- damn the bars been calling my name since I got here. Find myself pacing around this room. Don't get me wrong- it's an awesome hotel but I feel like I'm in a really swanky jail. Anxiety today is worse than yesterday although I've stuck with my 30mg as planned. My saving grace is that I'm in grad school online and I have class tonight from 8:30-10:30 that I can't miss. We have a presentation tonight that makes up a huge portion of our grade so that has also helped remind me to not make a quick liquor store run. The downside is that my hands are shaking and it's a verbal presentation so I hope my anxiety doesn't throw me off too badly. Anyway- I'll get it done and be happy I didn't drink today.

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I need to jump on here and share this. I just had a major panic attack during my presentation in class. This was a PowerPoint presentation done via my headset in a virtual classroom. I only got 2 minutes in and couldn't speak- could only get 1 or two words out at a time- heart was beating out of my chest- still is. Hands are shaking. I had to pretend like I lost internet connection and my partner had to do my part. My class was/is from 8:30pm to 10:30 and I was fine right up until our turn. This was seriously the worst attack I've had in months. I've been pacing in my hotel room for the last 10 minutes and trying deep breathing to slow my heart rate down. Think I might take a shower to see if that helps.

Just so you know, I followed my plan today- baclofen 10mg X3 at 7am, 1:00pm and 7:00pm. I then took 1g phenibut at 8pm because it normally takes 3-4 hours to kick in- I know it hasn't worked yet. I normally take 3-4g phenibut a day so I thought this would be a good dose to start titrating down while on baclofen. I also took two passion flower pills during the class to make sure I was steady- obviously that didn't work. I'm terrified that if I take klonopin now to calm down I'm going to go to bed and not wake up tonight. Am I insane? I feel like I am. 

I'm going to just stay awake for awhile- not that I could sleep anyway. Worst part is that i'm at the corporate offices for the next two days. I might have just failed my class and on top of that I might have an attack at work tomorrow and lose all the credibility i've built up over the last few years. Either that or I'll be up all night scared to sleep and will be worthless tomorrow- I don't know what's worse. I'm a total dumb-ass. I should have waited to start my baclofen until after the trip. Not in a good place right now at all. Feel off-way way off. 

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YAY! Happy for you Jets, and excited, too. Great job on 9 days AF. That's awesome. 

Great questions and great answers. I don't really have anything to add except I agree with everything everyone said. Pill boxes/cutter, being organized, etc...

Actually, I will add a couple of things. Now is not the time to try to change a bunch of habits and get uber-healthy and whatnot. The goal is to get free of addiction. Not to transform into your perfect self. That can come after. (And it's MUCH easier.) So while I think diet sodas are the devil in a bottle, I don't know that now is the time to get rid of 'em if you're used to drinking a lot of it regularly. Ditto the caffeine. 

However, if you're drinking caffeine after 5pm, you have to cut that silliness out. It's not good for you and it definitely disrupts sleep, even if you are used to it. And I'm sure that most of us would agree that good sleep is paramount to success. When I was first starting out someone told me to "guard your sleep". Words to live by. Even when you're not trying to take baclofen and get off of other stuff. 

Oh, and a last thing. Half-life does make a difference in the beginning. It changes a bit after you've been taking baclofen for a while. It does have a short half-life, and you definitely want to avoid withdrawals of any kind. Problem is, I have NO idea about phenibut and baclofen together. I mean, I think that your phenibut use should make it much easier to titrate up on baclofen. Right? Does that make sense to you, too? And while I don't want you to have any withdrawals, I also don't want you to have repercussions from overdoing it. What you have planned (1g of phenibut or klonipin) sounds reasonable to me. But understanding all this stuff is way over my pay grade. You're a unique example, in my experience. 

Actually, one more thing: IMHO, you don't have to split the doses up perfectly equally. I mean, you can. But it seems like a lot of work to me. Where you add the increase will really depend on your side effects, if you have any. If it makes you sleepy in the afternoon, then you wouldn't want to take it in the morning. But anyway, that's getting ahead of ourselves. One day at a time, my friend. 

Glad you've joined us. :)

(And I thought I didn't have anything to say! ha!) 

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14 minutes ago, Jetsman32 said:

... I just had a major panic attack during my presentation in class...

We cross-posted, Jets. So you've been taking baclofen for 2 days? Is that right? I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that tomorrow you don't take any baclofen and do what you would normally do. This sounds to me like withdrawal and I agree with you that it isn't the time to start the process. If you want to take the baclofen, then I think you should...I don't know. Use some of your other medications to help you through the day. 

No, you're not going to die tonight. Really. I promise. That's the panic talking. It's not real, and it's not rational. I know it's scary as all get out, but you really are going to be okay when the panic attack stops. If you want to chat, I'd be happy to do that. I've logged onto our chat feature and I know it works. I'll sign in there and hang around to see if you show up. No worries if you don't feel like it, though. 

Hang in there! HUGE hugs and support coming your way. 

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Thanks NE1 appreciate all of the solid advice. I am definitely a unique example. I have found tons of info on people going through Phenibut withdrawals and also about how similar phenibut and baclofen are but NOTHING about someone taking both at the same time. I've scoured the web. 

I did find mention of people switching from phenibut to baclofen and all of them said it made their tolerance much higher since they are both gaba-b antagonists. I think that's why I've had such minimal (if any) real side effects so far.

However- I am feeling the brunt of withdrawals tonight- did you happen to see my last post. Had a total mental breakdown about 20-30 minutes ago- major panic attack. 

9 minutes ago, Ne1 said:

YAY! Happy for you Jets, and excited, too. Great job on 9 days AF. That's awesome. 

Great questions and great answers. I don't really have anything to add except I agree with everything everyone said. Pill boxes/cutter, being organized, etc...

Actually, I will add a couple of things. Now is not the time to try to change a bunch of habits and get uber-healthy and whatnot. The goal is to get free of addiction. Not to transform into your perfect self. That can come after. (And it's MUCH easier.) So while I think diet sodas are the devil in a bottle, I don't know that now is the time to get rid of 'em if you're used to drinking a lot of it regularly. Ditto the caffeine. 

However, if you're drinking caffeine after 5pm, you have to cut that silliness out. It's not good for you and it definitely disrupts sleep, even if you are used to it. And I'm sure that most of us would agree that good sleep is paramount to success. When I was first starting out someone told me to "guard your sleep". Words to live by. Even when you're not trying to take baclofen and get off of other stuff. 

Oh, and a last thing. Half-life does make a difference in the beginning. It changes a bit after you've been taking baclofen for a while. It does have a short half-life, and you definitely want to avoid withdrawals of any kind. Problem is, I have NO idea about phenibut and baclofen together. I mean, I think that your phenibut use should make it much easier to titrate up on baclofen. Right? Does that make sense to you, too? And while I don't want you to have any withdrawals, I also don't want you to have repercussions from overdoing it. What you have planned (1g of phenibut or klonipin) sounds reasonable to me. But understanding all this stuff is way over my pay grade. You're a unique example, in my experience. 

Actually, one more thing: IMHO, you don't have to split the doses up perfectly equally. I mean, you can. But it seems like a lot of work to me. Where you add the increase will really depend on your side effects, if you have any. If it makes you sleepy in the afternoon, then you wouldn't want to take it in the morning. But anyway, that's getting ahead of ourselves. One day at a time, my friend. 

Glad you've joined us. :)

(And I thought I didn't have anything to say! ha!) 

 

 

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Hope you see my reply. We cross posted again. I'll hang out in chat for awhile. Meet you there if you see this and feel like chatting. 

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Huh. I can't find the chat room. And the technical guru is asleep right now...Sorry, Jets! Listen, hang in there. Really. You're going to be okay, no matter what you decide to do tomorrow about the baclofen. 

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I can't find the chat room either. I appreciate the offer though- would have been nice. Tonight might be rough. I don't know what to do. I don't want to stop Baclofen since I'm two days in and I really want to be done with phenibut. I've only had one other panic attack like the one I've had tonight in my entire life. I think it was just because I was off the Phenibut and it was public speaking. I'm hoping that's all it was. My heart rate has come down now- not normal but down. I took Phenibut at 8pm so I think the effects will start kicking in around 11 or 12 - but I only took 1g so it might not even do anything. This would be easier to handle where I at home with my wife but being in this hotel room alone is just making it worse. I would go for a walk but I know that would lead me to the bar and that is not going to happen. 

Do you think I'd be ok to take my klonopin tonight so I can get some sleep for tomorrow? I usually take 3g and I'm out for 7 hours or so. I appreciate you giving me some encouragement that I will wake up tomorrow!

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I agree with NE.

Stay at 30 mgs/day or go down a little. Or stop entirely. You haven't been on bac long enough for it to make a difference.

Take enough phenibut to stop the withdrawals. You already took 1 g and you normally take 3-4 g? I would think another g should get you out of withdrawals. 

Cold turkey is too much right now. Do what you have to do for tonight and wait for a less stressful time to titrate up on bac. <3

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Thank you both for the advice I really appreciate it. A bit calmer now- talked to my wife for awhile and the info here is helpful. I shouldn't have tried to quit phenibut cold-turkey- that was a mistake. The Baclofen has helped over the last two days though- I can tell a difference for at least a few hours after I take it. Hell- maybe it's a placebo. I'm taking so many herbs and nootropics right now that I don't know which way is up or what is making a difference.

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