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The End of my Addiction

Lithium Orotate


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Thanks for that, Anne - I'm off to search it online right now!

This site is a great source of advice & suggestions about treatment & supplements. I'm already taking aniracetam as recommended by Jetsman (I think) & always open to new suggestions. My alcoholic brain is sorely in need of feeding after decades of poisoning with alcohol.

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@Anne12 I have started taking aniracetam too, based on @Jetsman32's advice. It helps with baclofen brain fog a lot. I used to take piracetam for the same thing, but that became almost impossible to obtain a few years ago. I take it with a fat source. Jetsman suggests fish oil. I take it with a teaspoon or so of MCT oil.

I also just ordered some lithium orotate. Have I mentioned before that I am wildly suggestible re: supplements? I have always felt uncomfortable in my own skin, so it's been a never-ending journey for me to find supplements that may help me find a sense of normalcy. I will report back. Thanks for the suggestion.

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The jury is still out on the aniracetam at the moment. When I first started taking it, I could feel a difference after the morning dose - more energised etc, then I realised it had a good dose of caffeine in it! So that explains the immediate effects. But I read that you have to take it for a few weeks before you feel an overall improvement in your brain function, so that's a bit more difficult to quantify. I do regular mind games on my ipad, & I have been getting better scores lately - but maybe that's just practice?

I do get brain fog from baclofen, so I am in search of something to offset that.

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Felina and Molly- keep us posted. Molly- astragalus is energizing without any speedy stuff. And a really good general tonic. I only promote stuff I can FEEL and is cheap (to experiement with) and non-pharma.  No repeatable, discernible effects- toss. I always say- take a lot to start, no effects, stop. Effects, tamper down as low as possible. If someone tells you herbs do nothing- tell them to take a couple of cups of  senna tea  (used for constipation) and get back to me 

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Jetsman32

@Molly78 and @Felina glad you are trying aniracetam. I haven't had it in weeks although I have a huge bag at home. I'm still fasting 23 hours per day (yes that's one meal per day at 6:30pm) so I can't take in any calories during the day that rules out arirecetam for me at the moment. Although since going up to 300mgs per day of Bac per day I have had some serious somnolence some maybe some aniracetam after dinner might help me stay awake..........

 

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Jetsman32

Oh forgot to mention that I've lost nearly 20bls in 6 weeks. My wife says I'm getting too thin. I might need to take a break soon but I still have some mid-section fat that I'd like to do away with first. Still can't see my abs.  Maybe I'll stick with it for the next 30 days while I stay AF then change it up after that. My goal is to get super thin so that when my back is fixed I can start bulking up on protein and get back into lifting weights hardcore again.

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Thanks for the info, Anne. :) 

I may try it. Prescription meds that help with ADD are too...much. I never had any luck with piracetam back in the day. Maybe I wasn't willing to stick with it long enough? But if lithium orotate helps me get done some of my 'scary' chores, I'd be amazed and thrilled. 

On 8/13/2016 at 9:09 PM, Felina said:

 

Have I mentioned before that I am wildly suggestible re: supplements? 

lol. That's clear! Please report back!!

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Alrighty. I ordered some that should get here on Monday. Hope it was right to order 5mg of elemental lithium. I didn't want to read any information about it, because then I'll end up convincing myself that it doesn't work, or is bad for me, or something, something to keep from having an open mind. I REALLY need something to help me address my scary stuff (like the stuff around my husband's stolen identity, especially the stuff for the IRS, which is overwhelming, frustrating and annoying). 

Next up to experiment with will be the astragalus. 

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No. I'm a complete novice and an admitted skeptic when it comes to non-pharceutical supplements. 

Basically the opposite of Anne! ?

Ill take it slow and easy. I get way too nervous taking supps to do anything over-indulgent. Unlike with meds... HA! 

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Hmmmm, Joe. Thanks for that info. I'll look in to it. You don't go "up" on the Lithium Orotate- and this is a different thing than the lithium used to treat bi-polar, etc. It's a salt. I've never heard it 'builds up' but I have heard the other lithium does. Will let you know. Ne- a caveat I must say re astragalus...it does rev up the system and with that comes appetite. I always eat more and am hungry more when I take it so if that's a issue you may want to avoid it. Rhodiola really helps me too. Joe- Ne is looking for things that give energy and reduce stress...GABA is more of a 'downer,'  and l-theanine is as well. Great for before bed

http://www.earthclinic.com/supplements/rhodiola.html

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Yeah, it's the lithium carbonate that 'builds up' which is why people on it have to get frequent blood tests. The orotate is a mineral, not exactly a salt. Ne, here's a video. 

Sorry ^ this guy but good info. Yeah, it's the carbonate that 'builds up.' The orotate is a mineral, not salt exactly 

 

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This guy rightfully addresses our generally bad diets but does not mention this- the 'new' scientific thinking (I'm watching a friend with cancer go to a very sophisticated 'alternative' doctor along with the regular protocol) is that we are all mineral and oxygen difficient because, even if we eat an excellent diet, it's the SOIL that is depleted of the essential minerals we used to get from a farm-like diet.  The naturopath put her on  lithium orotate and crystalized oxygen. If she could've afforded it he would've put her in an oxygen tank. I did the oxygen and honestly did not feel anything, although it could hardly hurt. Expensive, though. If any interest I'll link to it later

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9 hours ago, Ne1 said:

Hope it was right to order 5mg of elemental lithium.

Did you order the lithium orotate? Or just lithium? That would make a huge difference. Please check your order!

I got mine today and took one. Jury's still out, I'll keep you guys informed if I have positive effects.

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Lithium orotate, definitely. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PB4II68/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I found an NIH article that lithium orotate may be bad for the kidneys, has decreased renal clearance and therefore builds up more than lithium carbonate

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/34690

*sigh*

I didn't look for or read the whole study, and it's in rats, not humans. But probably advisable to use sparingly, and to make sure you have good kidney function before and during using it, if it's a regular tool in your arsenal. Also, I don't know how much is too much. The rats were given it via injection, and I'm assuming it was a high dose. But the authors do say, "It seems inadvisable to use lithium orotate for the treatment of patients."

Still going to try it, of course!

In general, I don't take anything very consistently because I worry about dependence and also liver and kidney function. (I'm taking a whole lot of baclofen, which is cleared through the kidneys, not the liver. And it's generally pretty wise for anyone with alcoholism to worry about and keep track of liver function with annual physicals. IMHO.) 

Anne, thanks for the info about the astragalus. You're right, I don't want to take anything that increases my appetite! 

Will report back after I try it next week. 

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Interesting, thanks Ne. Of course, any active or former alkies should be doing liver and kidney cleanses -especially folks on Bac! !Milk Thistle daily and uva ursi for kidneys. I posted something like this on MWO and got roundly ridiculed...I just don't see why it's controversial. Herbs are cheap, benign and work. Swanson's Vitamins is a great company to order from, in the States. Fast, cheap, good quality.

I don't take the LO every day, agree with that.

Keep us posted , guys! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

For what it's worth, Joan Larson discusses Lithium Orotate in her book, Seven Weeks to Sobriety, and explains why it is preferable to ordinary lithium.  I bought it for my wife and she felt it worked and started taking it again recently but stopped.  She had taken other meds and wasn't well so we weren't sure whether to continue with Lithium.  Maybe we'll try this again.  We got ours through Biovea.

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Ok, so I gave it a shot. I took on 5mg tablet. Didn't notice any difference... I may try it again. If I were to continue to take it, I would definitely do the research about how much it takes, over what period of time, to build up in the system and cause problems. Anne, how often and in what dosage, do you take it? 

I have ADD, and definitely benefit from things that help me focus, but hate the side effects that come with those medications. I'm also, as I've stated before, the opposite of Anne, in that I am more wary of supplements than I am of medications. But my antipathy toward ADD meds makes me willing to expand my horizons! So keep the suggestions coming! 

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Agree with you, Ne.  I also have found no beneficial effect from lithium orotate. I took it as recommended, 500 micrograms daily (0.5 mg). Couldn't detect any improvement in mood or anxiety levels over about 2 weeks.

Oh well - it was worth a try, but won't be reordering. 

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On 9/3/2016 at 5:26 PM, joesixpack said:

What's the neurochemistry of ADD, Ne? Or is does it vary considerably? 

Who knows, Joe! I don't think they've come up with any really definitive diagnosis, much less a consensus on causes or treatments. The official description is, like alcoholism, based solely on symptoms. Unless you're in a trial somewhere that studies MRIs! The brain looks and fires differently. It's probably related to prefrontal cortex, where we order and use other higher functions. But whatever. Like I said, there's really no telling. 

I was diagnosed at 18, and I'm 47 now. I was never really sure of the diagnosis, but I am now! (My parents and husband always laughed when I said I didn't think I had ADD. Seriously.) I'm the textbook definition for women with it. 

My current psychiatrist was also unconvinced until I brought her a picture of my study, and showed her the current project I was working on--painting a door. I painted the entire damn thing, except one pane. Didn't notice it until I hung it up. That's the story of my life and of my projects, and it's never just one project! 

The only legitimate treatments are stimulants like Ritalin and Adderall, some antidepressants can help, and some random other meds, too. I have a prescription for Adderall, but it makes me feel completely overwrought. It's contraindicated for people with addiction, but I'm not worried about that so much as the fact that it increases my anxiety off the charts. It's just not good for me. 

I would LOVE to find alternatives that aren't quite so jarring, but have yet to find anything particularly effective. Also, it's just part of who I am, and in some ways I kind of like it, because it makes life...interesting. HA! But I wouldn't want to medicate away my self, you know?

That was the long version of the answer to your question which is that I have no idea. Having ADD, like other mental illnesses (it doesn't feel like a mental illness to me, but anyway), greatly increases the probability of having addiction. 

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