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The End of my Addiction

Drinking on Naltrexone is SO shit!


Flyer1210
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I was gonna post this on one of the TSM boards but thought I might get a more balanced answer on here. I first started TSM in 2012 with great success. At around 6 months I ran out and for one reason or another I just couldn't really get back into it. Since then I've had multiply attempts at it mostly ending in failure. What it does do for me is stopping things getting out of control because drinking on TSM is just such a chore!

 

My latest attempt began around 3 weeks ago and I've found it hard going although it is working as my drinking is down. I'm having to force myself to drink as its just taking away the buzz (that's what its supposed to do I guess). But I'm saying to myself this shit sucks I just want to get drunk! Surely this must be why a lot of people don't have success with TSM. I for good or bad was a quick responder but I sort of wish I wasn't if you get me. I wish the process would have been gradual and let me decrease my drinking along with the buzz over time.

 

I hear a lot of TSMers who say they want to get to the point where they can have a drink or two. That's just not me. Its all or nothing. Two drinks makes me feel like shit. I just want to go to sleep which I can't because of the stimulating effect I get from low doses of booze.

 

I'm at a loss really. I know its pointless not following TSM to the letter but here I am sitting here with a glass of cider and planning on getting shit faced:( (without taking a Naltrexone pill)

 

 

Its all well and good saying you just have to take the pill. But come on, we're alcoholics and the first thing that comes into our mind is I want to get fucked up! Anyone else experience this?

 

 

 

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Drinking on baclofen isn't so much better IMHO.  You lose the buzz.  Lots of people on here are "indifferent" ie don't want to even pick up a drink.  But I have found the habit a difficult one to break.  I can easily stay within recommended weekly guidelines now, but I still look forward to a drink at proscribed times - eg Friday night.  But what a disappointment!  No effect beyond mild sedation, & no inclination to have a second drink cos the first didn't do what it should have.

I think bac has an extinction effect a bit like nal.  I'm finding myself less inclined to bother now.  Mind you, it's taken nearly 3 years.  The good thing about bac is that you take it all the time, you don't have to make a decision to take the pill or not.  Like you, I would choose not to on occasion, with predictable results.

What I do like is being able to join in social occasions with a glass or two of wine & not want to rush home to hit the bottle afterwards.

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@Flyer1210 Yes and no.  Now that I'm sober on Baclofen, I occasionally miss being able to stick my head in the sand and make it all go away for awhile using alcohol.  I sometimes remember the good feelings I would get after a few drinks and miss that.  However the reality was that it was never just a few drinks.  AL was ruining my life.  It was ruining my family, my relationship with my spouse, my job, everything.  I was desperate for a cure, and I found one.  I was at the point where my desire to be free of this addiction outweighed any perceived benefit from alcohol.  Maybe you're not there?

From what I know about Naltrexone and TSM, you are undoing any reprogramming that Nal is doing by continuing to drink without it on occasion.  It looks like you realize that.  Maybe our resident Nal expert can weigh in.  @phoenix?

 

Edited by Mom2JTx3
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Hey, Flyer, and welcome to the forum. 

I haven't taken Nal consistently. I was indifferent on baclofen for 4 years, and relapsed. I haven't found it easy to get free from the bottle since then (about a year and a half ago). 

totally get it about wanting to get out of your head, and just drink. It took me four months to get sober the first time, drinking less and less as the days moved on... But that doesn't mean I couldn't get totally messed up, even right up to the point when I stopped wanting to drink. 

I think a part of it is filling the time and impulse with something else. I don't remember having to do that the first time, but I keep hearing and thinking it would help if there was something that I was totally geared up for, and ready to do, to fill the hours, the habit, the impulse... I don't know. Basically, I think that trying to get sober, and then getting and staying sober, can be a pain in the ass. Definitely worth it, to be contentedly sober, but not comfortable if you're not contented about it.

It's actually pretty cool that nal works so well for you. I guess it means that you have to be really committed to not wanting to lose yourself in the bottle. I'm actually kind of envious of that... I really wish I had that happen--that I could take a pill right before drinking and then not have the booze affect me. But I'm WAY more than ready to quit drinking and be and stay sober for a while. I think? *sigh* This ain't easy, that's for sure.

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Thanks guys. Some good replies. I'm not not totally sure where I'm at tbh. Since my first stint on TSM my drinking has gone through the stratosphere. Multiply AL withdrawals... Drinking mad amounts of booze. What worries me about TSM is that when I tried it the first time. Being that it sort of worked. it did nothing what so ever for the cravings. 6 months in I still got the Jones for a beer most nights even though I only never got past 3-4. But I hated that. 3-4 beer really messes me up. It ruins my whole day as I can't function and have to go to bed be it 5pm and then wake up around 9pm and my night is ruined tossing and turning.

 

Don't get me wrong I REALLY want to quit drinking. I've been through some pretty horrific time the last few years back. I don't want to sound like one of those guys who want there cake and be able to eat it at the same time. I just want to be finished with this. No booze... Nothing at all. Not a sniff. TSM I know is a process but drinking on Nal is so FUCKING shit! I'm not sure I have it in me to follow this through wither it be 4 months or a year.

 

I've tried Baclofen many times but the SEs truly fucked me up. Maybe a slow titration might work but I've tried that as well. Saying that I was drinking mad amounts titrating up and that surely didn't help.

 

Anyway I'm grateful for the replies. I'll get there by hook or by crook one way or the other:)

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7 hours ago, Mom2JTx3 said:

@Flyer1210 Yes and no.  Now that I'm sober on Baclofen, I occasionally miss being able to stick my head in the sand and make it all go away for awhile using alcohol.  I sometimes remember the good feelings I would get after a few drinks and miss that.  However the reality was that it was never just a few drinks.  AL was ruining my life.  It was ruining my family, my relationship with my spouse, my job, everything.  I was desperate for a cure, and I found one.  I was at the point where my desire to be free of this addiction outweighed any perceived benefit from alcohol.  Maybe you're not there?

From what I know about Naltrexone and TSM, you are undoing any reprogramming that Nal is doing by continuing to drink without it on occasion.  It looks like you realize that.  Maybe our resident Nal expert can weigh in.  @phoenix?

 

Your right. The thing with me is that I think it happened to quick for me. Like after 3 beer I'm done but I really want to get fucked up.  I truly believe that if followed to the tee it will do the biz but I'm surly not the only one who once in a while want's to get fucked and doesn't take the pill.

Don't get me wrong I want to beat the like nothing more in life but when you get that feeling to get fucked up drunk it's really hard to take the pill especially when you know no later how you try  drinking on TSM season is like torture.

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Hi everyone, yes if you drink without nal you start to undo the process, and often at a speed which is quicker than doing it. If nal makes it horrible to drink it's doing it's job.

Me I started TSM not wanting to drink, I was fed up of alcohol and desperate to try anything to get my life back. Having 1 or 2 drinks wasn't my goal, abstenance was my goal and that is one I reached. Sure for a while being able to drink safely was novel enough for me to drink occasionally for 18 months, when I then realised I didn't enjoy any alcohol so quit full stop.

It sounds as if you do want this, but there's this other side which says it's ok to drink without it once. You stand a good chance of success if you eliminate those moments! Are you ready for it to work?

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Hi Phoenix.

Thanks for the reply,

 

I'm really ready to stop drinking. When I started TSM 4 years ago looking back I was drinking around 15UK units a day maybe 4 times a week.

 

Since then things have went down hill. I'm not a daily drinker only because when I do drink I drink so much that my body says no more after around a week to 10 days. I'm an extreme binge drinker. When I go at it it can be all day 24 hours a day. Drinking blackout... wake up drink... Blackout... You get the idea.  I've had some really bad detoxes the last 2 years. When you start drinking more vodka than mixer things aren’t right.

 

When you say "are you ready for it to work" I really hear you but its like saying to someone in AA are you really ready to let it work. I know its not the same thing. I here of people starting TSM and still getting the buzz but after time it gradually slows down and the cravings with it. From my very first pill I can barely get past 4 beer. Now I know this sounds great but its happening to quick if you get me. I know this sounds weird but from going to getting a really good buzz to absolutely nothing over night is just too quick.

 

I'm hoping someone can understand what I mean. I really would have liked to the process to have been gradual as in I still enjoyed drinking but over time the buzz and amount drunk gradually reduced without me really noticed it. Does this make sense?

This is what stopped me before with TSM. The cravings never diminished and after time I just wanted tog get drunk and was don with it.

 

 

 

 

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I forgot to add that habit more than hard core craving is probably my downfall. I'm also probably just doing to the end of my honeymoon period.

 

I'm all too aware that not taking any TSM style is pointless. Yesterday I had the pill in my pocket and knew deep down I wasn't gonna take it and I'm gonna be honest and say that I fucking enjoyed getting drunk.

Believe me I know some people will read this and think this guy isn't ready or doesn't really want to stop. Believe me, I've tried everything and have been to hell and back. I've done TSM on and off from 2012 and baclofen from 2013... Campral.. Therapy... You name it.

 

What I like about TSM is it stops me going on week long benders. I'm 40 and sooner or later my health will hand me my arse.

 

To be honest is like to try baclofen again but I've tried it so many times and the SEs totally ruined me. I just want to STOP. The thought of going a year on TSM for say a year isn't filling me with confidence that but I suppose you Ave to keep ploddingng on?

 

 

 

 

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Flyer

 

I get you, I am also confused. You say it's happening too quickly, which I can understand and some people have it happen even quicker - they hit cure point after their first use, others have to keep going for 18 months. Like you baclofen SEs were horrendous for me and that's the beauty of Nal, it's one pill, much lower SEs. This is your chance now to make a good go of it, and I believe consistency is key.

 

I don't know if it's important for you to know that I drank in binges which became longer and longer, until at times it was 5 days per week 30 UK units each day (be it in a few hours, or across 8 hours until I blacked out). I'm a small female, so that was no mean feat and to have that halved on first TSM use was fantastic. Like you I'd tried everything, rehab, detoxes, Campral, nothing touched it until Nal. I did have the support of a therapist at the time (just standard counseller/psychotherapist) she helped me work out how to start living with much reduced alcohol, perhaps that's the scary bit for you?I don't know but the evidence is that TSM can work for you.

 

ps I also get those 'sod it' moments, but they get less and less with time.

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Just wrote a long post and got deleted.... Fuck?

 

Anyway. Yeah phoenix I know this works I'm just gonna have to man up and just take the pill. I'm sitting here drinking (no Naltrexone) 

To me Naltrexone was always a binge stopper and still is. It's nearly impossible to go overboard on it. My first putting on it(6months) I sort of disheartened as the cravings weren't going away or maybe it was just habit, who knows. When your 6 months in and your finding it hard to drink 3 beer maybe it's time to use a bit of good old will power?

 

I know for one thing. I'm sick to the back teeth of this shit. Ive been to ICU had multiple detox's and excruciating depression after benders. I just have to stop romanticising booze. It's not like I'm a social drinker ffs. I'm sitting here alone in my flat flicking through shit tv!

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4 hours ago, Flyer1210 said:

I sort of disheartened as the cravings weren't going away

I've not tried nal, but I don't think I could cope with the cravings either.  I believe they do go away after a time, but I needed them to be gone like yesterday or I know I wouldn't have been able to stop drinking.  Bac does do that as you titrate up.

I think the secret is very gradual titration.  I went up quite fast but I stopped drinking first, then started the bac & I got relatively few SE.  Most people keep drinking as they titrate up, but AL+bac makes SE 10x worse.  Which is why you need to go soooo slowly if you do it that way.  Means it takes longer........but that's what you're after if I understand your posts?  A more gradual release form AL?

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I was using nal per TSM right before baclofen.  For me it was taking too long to work.  My drinking decreased very slowly and I still enjoyed it, so I'm envious of your fast response.  I was miserable, still drinking 1-2 btls wine per day and needed something to work more quickly so I tried baclofen beginning in May (I think) and after a rocky start it started to work, meaning I wasn't craving/drinking booze 24/7.  But I really wanted TSM to work, I spent $$$ on nal from overseas pharmacy, read " The Cure  for Alcoholism",  got lots of great info from the THREEC Foundation but still just drinking was out of hand.  I am committed to the bac and am tolerating side effects better and am free of alcohol and cravings but I would have preferred TSM to work.  Only because once you reach the "switch" and extinction has occurred you stop taking the medicine and that's it.   Baclofen looks like a lifetime commitment.  My point is  I would much rather not have to be on a medication for the rest of my life.  So if I were you I'd go back on the nal ASAP

The habits and lifestyle change slowly , I agree with above about filling the time with other activities.  Takes some effort but it works. 

You really have to want it though.  I think that is key. 

Good luck.  I think you're really close to extinction. 

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Thanks so much guys. When I was on baclofen my drinking was off the charts. I could do 3 bottles of wine a night while on 250mg. Surmise to say I was a walking zombie. 

TSM if I was shooting for a few drinks I would have called çured from the outset. But as said above that's not me hopefully if I stick to it extension will come but I just hate the thought of it taking maybe a year.

 

Tbh I'd try baclofen again but I'd really need to stay off the booze titrating up as as said above I was a total mess.

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Flyer there's no way of knowing if it'll happen tomorrow or next year, the biggest encouragement is that you've already seen a big reduction. TSM does require patience, but as I say could happen at any time. Rome wasn't built in a day.

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Thanks phoenix.

 

I'm truly aware of that. What I'm saying is that drinking on Naltrexone is really really hard for me. As said before I really hate having  say 1_2_3 beer. It just fucked with my system. I see some TSMers drinking  say 2 glasses of wine and feeling great and getting on with there day. 

Small amounts of alcohol truly does not agree with me. This is my problem and is what for me unstuck before more than once.

I know beating this was never gonna be hard and I have to man up and do what is needed but I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

It's gonna be a thing to see how this goes. 

 

It's 10pm here in Ireland and I feel like fucking shit. With Naltrexone in me I'd be out for my morning walk. No duckinfnchance of that. Hangovers are the bane of my life.

Keep up the fight peps?

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2 hours ago, Flyer1210 said:

Thanks phoenix.

 

I'm truly aware of that. What I'm saying is that drinking on Naltrexone is really really hard for me. As said before I really hate having  say 1_2_3 beer. It just fucked with my system. I see some TSMers drinking  say 2 glasses of wine and feeling great and getting on with there day. 

Small amounts of alcohol truly does not agree with me. This is my problem and is what for me unstuck before more than once.

I know beating this was never gonna be hard and I have to man up and do what is needed but I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

It's gonna be a thing to see how this goes. 

 

It's 10pm here in Ireland and I feel like fucking shit. With Naltrexone in me I'd be out for my morning walk. No duckinfnchance of that. Hangovers are the bane of my life.

Keep up the fight peps?

If you hate drinking small amounts, why are you drinking at all?Why not just not drink?Sorry if that's a really stupid thing to say!

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Not to sure how to reply to that really. Saying that to an alcoholic is a bit strange? Its like a non alcoholic after 2_3 drinks saying fuck this ive had enough. I  think I've said already that I drink to get drunk and with TSM drinking at most 4 beer makes me fell like totally shit. From the age of 15 I never seem The point of having a beer or 2 and that is what TSM has got me to. Now to some this would be an absolute godsend and would probably call cured right off the bat.

The thing is I AM drinking smaller amounts but the inner demon doesn't see it like that, I still want to get shit faced.

Im gathering that you might think that I'm at what some TSMers might be at  say the 6 months period where the extension has started to happen. With me the buzz has gone but the extinction has not happened if you get me? So my addictive side still wats to get fucked up.

TSM has cut my units down but it's done nothing when it comes to the cravings and wanting to get fucked up drunk.

I don't mean to be harsh sorry if it come across like that.œ

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Not at all.

I still get some urges to get shit faced, or use food as a substitute, that hasn't gone away, over time it's gotten a lot less and the thought of drinking makes me feel sick/I can weigh up the options and thanks to TSM don't have the craving for the actual substance (of alcohol) so can rationalise it and say "No".

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Flyer what about a joint approach with nal & bac?  I think someone else on here may have done that?  Keep taking the nal & titrate up on the bac, which you can do quite fast if you're only drinking 2-3 beers a night.

It sounds as though you really need something to offset the cravings, & nal won't do that.

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On September 27, 2016 at 9:25 PM, Alice22 said:

I was using nal per TSM right before baclofen.  For me it was taking too long to work.  My drinking decreased very slowly and I still enjoyed it, so I'm envious of your fast response.  I was miserable, still drinking 1-2 btls wine per day and needed something to work more quickly so I tried baclofen beginning in May (I think) and after a rocky start it started to work, meaning I wasn't craving/drinking booze 24/7.  But I really wanted TSM to work, I spent $$$ on nal from overseas pharmacy, read " The Cure  for Alcoholism",  got lots of great info from the THREEC Foundation but still just drinking was out of hand.  I am committed to the bac and am tolerating side effects better and am free of alcohol and cravings but I would have preferred TSM to work.  Only because once you reach the "switch" and extinction has occurred you stop taking the medicine and that's it.   Baclofen looks like a lifetime commitment.  My point is  I would much rather not have to be on a medication for the rest of my life.  So if I were you I'd go back on the nal ASAP

This is an excellent  point.  You only take Nal if you're drinking.  I was successful on Baclofen, and am AF, but I now take 310 mg of Bac every day of my life.  This can be expensive, even though I have a script for 120mg.  If I had something that worked for me that I only took when drinking, I would be medication free.  I was also concerned that TSM would take too long to work, and my drinking was so out of control, 24/7, that I was afraid to try it which is why I went the Bac route.  However that took a long time too because of SEs.

That said, I hear what you're saying about craving.  I drank heavily off and on until the switch although it exacerbated the SEs and I wouldn't recommend it.  The first time I hit indifference, I was still relying on my crutch although I no longer HAD to drink.  I had to make a conscious decision to quit, even though I still wanted to drink.  It was psychological at that point, not physical.  Maybe you need to make that decision too, whether on Bac or Nal?  You've tried it all, maybe that's the missing piece?  It may be uncomfortable, and maybe Bac would make it easier, but maybe not.  IMO Its not going to be effortless since you've tried so many things but are still struggling.

We need to address the issue of why we drink.  It's not enough to say it's because we're alcoholics.  How did it start?  For me it was social anxiety.  That didn't go away.  Some of us have to have a strategy for going AF.  A lot of things change.  Exercise is a good one.  Replacing old habits with new ones.  Meds don't do all the work for many of us.  I was very surprised that all my problems didn't go away when I went AF.  I've even considered trying therapy but that's scary.

Ok, enough lecturing. :) And I know I don't 'know' you, but maybe it's something to consider.

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Hi guys.

Day after and I feel like total shit. Fuck binges  I cant do it no more. I'm gonna just have to bite the bullet and take the pill even if it's shit. I'm a total mess like this. I can't do shit, I have no motivation or concentration.

I think I was being a pussy not wanting to take the pill and my addictive side was making up all sorts of excuses. The think is to really get a buzz  i need to have the nal out of my system for 2-3 day to get a proper buzz. So going a day without taking nal and drinking is just stupid as I'm reversing the process and at the same time not even enjoying the booze.

If it's a choose of taking the pill and drinking without enjoying it versus feeling like ahitmfor days im just gonna have to man up and do the right thing. Ive fotta stop romanticising drink. I don't really even enjoy it anymore. I drink alone and watch shit tv just vlackingmout and not even remembering shit.

Regarding baclofen, I think that's ship has sailed I really had a hard time on it with SEs. I was a total mess.

 

I takes me 3_4 days to get back to some sort of normality. I'm sick to my stomach and just can't wait till bed time until I can just shut this bullshit off for 8  or so hours.

 

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5 hours ago, Flyer1210 said:

Hi guys.

Day after and I feel like total shit. Fuck binges  I cant do it no more. I'm gonna just have to bite the bullet and take the pill even if it's shit. I'm a total mess like this. I can't do shit, I have no motivation or concentration.

I think I was being a pussy not wanting to take the pill and my addictive side was making up all sorts of excuses. The think is to really get a buzz  i need to have the nal out of my system for 2-3 day to get a proper buzz. So going a day without taking nal and drinking is just stupid as I'm reversing the process and at the same time not even enjoying the booze.

If it's a choose of taking the pill and drinking without enjoying it versus feeling like ahitmfor days im just gonna have to man up and do the right thing. Ive fotta stop romanticising drink. I don't really even enjoy it anymore. I drink alone and watch shit tv just vlackingmout and not even remembering shit.

Regarding baclofen, I think that's ship has sailed I really had a hard time on it with SEs. I was a total mess.

 

I takes me 3_4 days to get back to some sort of normality. I'm sick to my stomach and just can't wait till bed time until I can just shut this bullshit off for 8  or so hours.

 

This can be really important, every time I drank I thought it would be ok. Looking back it never was just ok, perhaps a handful of times in my life, remainder of the time it always ended in trouble, even if it was just blackout, or phoning someone, or doing something daft in public. I wasn't cool and eventually no one wanted to hang out with me drunk, and I didn't want to hang out with them. Only other alcoholics drank with me, and then they stole from me and not only financially.

 

Your experiences may be different, but although some people may be able to enjoy a drink the risks for anyone with an issue with alcohol can be just too high.

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2 hours ago, phoenix said:

I wasn't cool and eventually no one wanted to hang out with me drunk, and I didn't want to hang out with them. Only other alcoholics drank with me, and then they stole from me and not only financially.

Bookmarked into my file of quality quotes

Regards

 

Bacman

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14 hours ago, Baclofenman said:

Bookmarked into my file of quality quotes

Regards

 

Bacman

Thanks Bacman, just reading it now has brought tears to my own eyes. This was my truth and it was why I became so determined to sort out my alcoholism.

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