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Who has used baclofen with gabapentin or Valium?


Greg
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Hey folks, I'm just wondering if many of you have combined baclofen with either gabapentin or Valium?  It is an idea I have had for some time and one that my addiction specialist might consider.  I'm worried that it might bomb me out or make me too unsteady to safely drive.  I'd start at low doses and work up, to minimise any problems.  I'm currently using pot in place of alcohol and it would be good to have something to reduce the cravings for both of them.  Gabapentin and baclofen both have reported anti-craving effects so the combination could possibly allow freedom from alcohol without having to use the huge doses of baclofen that people often take.

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@Greg My doc had the idea to add Gabapentin to Baclofen but I found it too sedating, even at the lowest dose.  Others here have found it helpful.  I believe @DunDrinkn does.  I also saw an article posted by @neophyte (I think) that it was contraindicated.  Maybe they will weigh in.  One thing to consider is that you don't stay at high dose Bac forever.  Also, the average stated on the French forum is 140mg to reach indifference which isn't high imo.  :)  It seems to depend on how much you drank and for how long. 

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6 hours ago, Greg said:

Hey folks, I'm just wondering if many of you have combined baclofen with either gabapentin or Valium?  It is an idea I have had for some time and one that my addiction specialist might consider.  I'm worried that it might bomb me out or make me too unsteady to safely drive.  I'd start at low doses and work up, to minimise any problems.  I'm currently using pot in place of alcohol and it would be good to have something to reduce the cravings for both of them.  Gabapentin and baclofen both have reported anti-craving effects so the combination could possibly allow freedom from alcohol without having to use the huge doses of baclofen that people often take.

Hey, Greg. I know you've been using pot for years now, in order to abstain or minimize your drinking. 

Have you ever actually tried any of the meds you've mentioned here?

I have taken all three concurrently, with one or the other and individually. 

Bottom line is to go slowly. Don't take too much. Don't have plans to do something until you are clear how it will affect you. 

Gabapentin used to make me very stoned. Not anymore. 

Baclofen used to give me terrible side effects. Not anymore.

Valium is valium. It's my pDoc's benzo of choice for people with addiction because it is long lasting and doesn't give an immediate, "I feel good" sensation. That said, I take it irregularly. Never more than 3 days in a row. Never more than 4 times in a week. And as little as possible when I do take it. (Say, 5mg, rather than the generally prescribed 10mg.) 

Best of luck!

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Thanks Mom and Ne.

I would like to keep my baclofen dose to 80 mg or so if possible, so that I can be kept on that dose if I have to go to hospital.  You would have to find a very liberal doctor here in Australia who would prescribe above that dose, so it would mean either multiple doctors or online ordering.  I agree 140 mg is not huge so maybe I would go up that high, at least for a short time.

Ne, yes I have tried all three drugs I mentioned.  Baclofen up to about 50 mg per day, gabapentin up to 800 mg (1200 mg on one occasion), and diazepam/Valium at various doses (currently only on 5 mg).  I just haven't tried them together much.  I did try phenibut (similar to baclofen) and gabapentin one evening and felt calm and free of all fear, without being too affected to drive.  I have never experienced any of these drugs to be addictive in any way, not even the Valium.  I am also wary of benzo addiction, so I would not want to use a lot of Valium.  None of these drugs creates a dopamine rush as far as I know, which could be why I have found them far less addictive than other substances.

The pot has done its job over the years but roadside drug driving tests by police here in Australia have people worried about smoking and driving, me included.  I only smoke 2 cones a night now, and the NSW Centre for Road Safety says that you should be right to drive 12 hours after smoking cannabis (but of course it varies a lot with dose).  However if you're in a bad car accident you can be taken to hospital for blood or urine drug testing, which I've heard can be positive to cannabis for weeks/months (urine).

I'm still alcohol free so doing well with that so far.

 

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3 minutes ago, Greg said:

Thanks Molly.  Unfortunately I live in eastern Australia so several thousand kilometres away from me, but good for anyone in Western Australia.

I wonder if she could recommend someone in your area who would be more open?  Maybe pointing your doc to the website would help?

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Hi, 

Right now I am  taking 120 mg baclofen, 1200 mg gabapentin/day, down from 1800.   I was really tired, couldn't think straight, unmotivated on the higher dose but these SEs have gotten better since I've been reducing the gabapentin, although not completely gone.  I have been trying for the past few months to find the right combination, with a lot of ups and downs.  I was on gabapentin first but my drinking was still  out of control. Baclofen is working for me so my plan is to stay at 120(or more if needed) and titrate down slowly on the gabapentin.  i just hope to find/maintain complete indifference and not feel so sluggish and fuzzy-minded.

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ive combined all 3, but not to stop drinking, i like benzos recreationally, and they never be used long term certainly not to treat alcoholism, you will have issues with tollerance and dependence.

gabapentin ive used to ween off benzos in the past, ive read many reports online that gabapentin is addictive, so that said i would be hesitent to use it to treat alcoholism long term for the same reason as valium.

that leaves baclofen, for most people this is enough, you just need to find a dose that works, 80mg is too low for most people. im not a dr, but my advice would be get rid of gabapentin unless you need it for some other condition. then slowly go up in baclofen until you reach indifference. you probably wont need gabapentin there

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On 14 October 2016 at 10:04 PM, Greg said:

You would have to find a very liberal doctor here in Australia who would prescribe above that dose, so it would mean either multiple doctors or online ordering

I've found a GP who knows nothing about Bac (I am her only AL-addicted patient) who is happy to prescribe me 230mg Bac per day. She only entertained the idea because my psychiatrist gave me a script for Bac (on my insistance, mind you) and after my GP saw the change, she was happy to continue prescribing it.

It's not impossible in Aus to get scripts for high-dose Bac, but yes it does require a bit of work on your part. 

Maybe Dr Amanda Stafford can suggest a GP in your area that's willing to prescribe high-dose Bac? It's worth sending her a PM to ask. Dr Stafford is on our side on this.

Edited by MJM
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On 17/10/2016 at 8:24 PM, neophyte said:

im not a dr, but my advice would be get rid of gabapentin unless you need it for some other condition. then slowly go up in baclofen until you reach indifference. you probably wont need gabapentin there

I wholeheartedly agree with this comment

On 13/10/2016 at 0:12 PM, Greg said:

Gabapentin and baclofen both have reported anti-craving effects so the combination could possibly allow freedom from alcohol without having to use the huge doses of baclofen that people often take.

I am far from convinced that this combination is effective to reap the full benefits by design of Baclofen use in AUD long term

Regards

 

Bacman

 

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I got a shipment of gabapentin today from Goldpharma. I am going to experiment with a couple of different meds to see if it is possible for me to titrate downwards a little on baclofen. (I've been at 140 mgs/day for years.) The possibility of relapse/loss of indifference scares me, so I want to tiptoe into this experiment and I'm fully prepared to go back up if I find myself slipping.

I will keep you all posted on this little experiment. I've pretty much stopped drinking anyway. I was successfully moderating for some time, but I was becoming increasingly aware that even small amounts of alcohol caused rebound anxiety and sleep disturbances. So for the last few weeks I've been almost entirely abstinent. I'm hoping that provides a good foundation for me to play around with lower baclofen doses.

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@Greg sorry I'm late to the party. I currently take 310mgs of Baclofen per day and I am indifferent. I thought I could weigh in on this because I have some experience. I have been taking Klonopin (stronger than Valium) for 3 years- 1MG 3 times daily and been on Baclofen for 4 months. I've also had some major back/nerve problems so for the last two months I've been taking 300mg of Gabepentin 4 times daily. So far I've had no adverse reactions. In fact, they seem to balance each other. I'll be very honest, I don't take my Klonopin as prescribed. I take it every 3 or 4 days and I'll take 3-4MG at a time. I only use it for severe panic attacks. I supplement and ease my anxiety with Passion Flower- an over the counter herbal remedy.

Baclofen has not in any way helped with my anxiety. I know others will say differently but that's the case for me. However, I have noticed that Gabapentin REALLY helps ease my anxiety. It was a side effect I did  not expect but am please with. For me, it hasn't been sedating at all- it's been the opposite- energizing. They say Gabapentin affects everyone differently though so if you are starting at the lowest dose 300mg you should be fine.

Long story short- I take all 3 and am fine. As long as you are not abusing the Gabapentin (can be used recreationaly- Google It to see) or the Valium you won't have any issues at all.

"I am not a Doctor- but I did stay at a Holiday Express Inn last night"

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Hi @Greg. I take gabapentin more or less regularly (ordered online). Anywhere from 600-3000mg/day. I don't notice much of anything, to be honest. Certainly no effect on my drinking. I also don't notice any withdrawal effects if I stop taking it suddenly. Guess I'm one of the few who isn't really affected by gabapentin. I'm also starting bac again. This time with gabapentin, and going very slowly (I'm only up to 25mg/day on bac). 

I've never combined with valium, but I do take Ativan when alcohol withdrawal is really bad. I don't take much, just enough to feel a little better and less shaky. At no time - with bac or gabapentin or Ativan or all three at once - do I feel stoned or too sedated. Actually, the opposite. I feel normal. Which sucks, of course, that it takes that much to feel normal.

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ive combined gabapentin and baclofen, i usually just use the gabapentin when ive taken benzos for too long in the past, but its great for short term use for anxiety. that said ive found gabapentin to not really affect my cravings, and benzos certainly do nothing for cravings if anything they just potentiate alcohol effects.

just be careful with taking gabapentin long term, ive read reports online that it has withdrawal as bad as benzos, but these are just posts ive read online. nothing concrete.

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