Jump to content
The End of my Addiction

Baclofen short-term memory loss - does it come back


Tennis Hero
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi,

I am trying Baclofen at a high dose to deal with alcohol misuse. I have gradually increased to about 200mg per day (but probably plan to cut back if it starts working, which I think it has). 

I have definitely noticed fatigue, some cognitive confusion and short-term memory loss. From reading about it this is due to GABA interaction in the brain. When I stop taking it, everything seems to come back to normal, which is good.

However, it worries me that after reduction(?) of GABA and for extended periods of time, perhaps weeks or months (depending on how things go), when I stop taking it, can I be sure that there will be no long-lasting damage to my brain, and even if there was, would I notice it (due to it being very difficult to notice objective change in one's internal faculties over a long period of time)?

I'm interested in anyone's thoughts who may have gone through a similar process, as to whether they noticed continuing similar side-effects after stopping treatment. Also anyone who has a theory on GABA-affecting medicines as the pertain to memory loss post-treatment, in general.

 

Thank you!

Mark

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Huh thats wierd that you say that.  Because I experienced similar things.   Alcohol messes with GABA A mainly (there are like 12 types).  Bac plays with GABA B so its kind of off and maybe hits the target a bit but not completely.  I am not a doctor I say again; i just read a lot.  The thing about GABA's are that one you mess with them they never come back to normal in my belief.  I'm sure there are threads about coming off of BAC.  I will say I noticed a huge difference taking and not taking it.  Not that I wanted to drink but it was more of a shock to adjust to than solving it by drinking as we mostly do.  Drinking would not have made me normal coming off of BAC which is a stunning thing.  I'll say more but really I'm not sleeping because I'm not using anything and I will start to not make sense eventually.  Long term use leads ot PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawl), I'm not sure what its called right now but it lasts a year or 2.  Which is why they say Campral is the solution as it works on an ion channel.  I don't know so talk to a doctor.  I'm sleepy as I took my mirt.  Best of luck. 

Edited by empyr3al
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi @Mark & welcome.

I think most people on bac get some degree of fatigue &/or brain fog.  I had noticeable fatigue initially & some daytime sleepiness (fell asleep in meetings etc, not that that's unusual for me), but after a while it just went away - or maybe I got used to it?  Didn't notice memory loss, or no worse than usual.

Trouble is, most of us are going from a state of heavy alcohol intake which poisons the central nervous system & depresses all cognitive function, to at least relative sobriety at higher doses of bac. Difficult to compare the 2 states really.  Plus going on drinking will definitely lead to permanent damage to your brain.  Hobson's choice I think  it's called.  I'm going with the bac (3 years on 160 mg max & still holding down a professional job).

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello @Mark

There is very little evidence as to memory loss and oral Baclofen use. From what I have read, memory loss from oral Baclofen *is* a side effect. My memory is very poor (hence the 900 odd bookmarks on my browser), my spelling requires me to spellcheck everything and my cognitive abilities are poor. Whether or not this is from oral Baclofen or the stroke I had in 2015 is moot.

Devils Advocate 

The trouble with anecdotal reports is that people only report changes, no one is going to post, "Baclofen has not effected my memory" unless prompted by a statement to the contrary. This makes it a loaded area so the reported X is weighted against an unknown Y.

 

The above aside i have read quite a good deal of anecdotal reports and several FIRST hand reports of memory loss. It might be an idea to peruse the threads at https://www.mywayout.org/community/ where you will no doubt find anecdotal evidence a-plenty.

Regarding your question about getting your memory back after withdrawal of your programme THIS document may be of interest. (Case 2)

Interesting subject.

Regards

 

Bacman

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Molly78 said:

Trouble is, most of us are going from a state of heavy alcohol intake which poisons the central nervous system & depresses all cognitive function, to at least relative sobriety at higher doses of bac. Difficult to compare the 2 states really.  Plus going on drinking will definitely lead to permanent damage to your brain.  Hobson's choice I think  it's called.  I'm going with the bac (3 years on 160 mg max & still holding down a professional job).

Yes indeed Molls. The fact that ones memory may have been "on the turn" due to years of substance abuse prior to Baclofen is certainly a consideration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting discussion.  I'm having issues with cognitive function.  Obviously it was a problem when I was drinking 24/7, but that hasn't been the case for close to a year and my brain has not returned to normal.  I do take adrafinil to mitigate the issue, but I'm nowhere near where I use to be.  It's certainly impacting my ability to do my job. :( 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mom2JTx3I will have to look up what that drug is "adrafinil".  I remember everything now and did before too; BAC and AL free for nearly half a year with a minor slip here or there.  Nothing like 40oz of vodka compared to a beer if you think of that as a slip.  BAC messed with me big time.  Cognition is important for a lot of us that maintain high level employment.  I'm certain there is a way to balance it but I'm not certain what it is yet.  It really messed with my employment but so did AL.  BAC seems a little more intense than balancing with a bit of liquor.  Wondering if we are over doing it or not or like I said hitting GABA B instead of the A's.  Not critical at all; just curious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, thread poster here,

Cheers for the feedback folder. Good (or bad?) to hear your responses.

This is common sense but I think the effects are dependant dosage, and at lower doses they are not noticeable / the brain flexes to cancel them out. When I got up to about 180 the problems suddenly became a lot worse. 

I am comfortable (given the alternative) for memory loss to be a side-effect _while I'm taking_ bac, I just worry about after I stop taking it. As we get older this stuff only gets worse.

To give some detail, my drink wasn't the worst i.e. 24/7, it was significantly less but yes, agreed it was enough to cause brain damage. Also brain-affecting drug use in my youth would have had a big effect. And I completely agree with the "one-sided" theory from Bacman, however, in my mind is contested by the drastic nature of my changes. e.g. I used to be very fluid with my vocabulary and hardly ever forgot a common word, now I forget one every second day. Similarly I am very organised and hardly ever forget what I was doing, or how to explain a straightforward concept (cognition not memory); now this happens a lot. This has been noticed by close and not-as-close friends. Note that my performance was good _after_ years of drink and drug abuse, but the issues started more ofter after taking high-levels of bac. Not to say I'm a wreck! I can operate ok and I reckon I could hold down a job. But the memory stuff would worry me if it stays after stopping bac - as memory only gets worse as we get older.

empyr3al, Mom2JTx3, no need to answer this but do you mind saying (or direct messaging me) what your dosage is? And I assuming you're still taking bac?

Here are a few more detailed thoughts, would be keen to get people's responses:

This is an obvious one - but just to clarify, it's the recall of my memories that suffers most, not the memories themselves. This applies (I think) to bac effects and also natural memory decline. I sometimes am unable to recall the size / shape / general idea / concept of a memory. I know that there was something I had to do or something I was obsessing about the day before but I don't know what it was. Once I am prompted, usually from a list or someone mentions something to me, I usually remember most all of the detail of the memory. It's the recall where I have the problem.

Re: my paragraph near the top, if it's just the recall that suffers and then it comes back after stopping Bac, then I'm not too worried. From my uneducated understanding of it (keen to get others' wisdom) GABA's role is as a chemical messenger. This makes me optimistic; if the memories are still there, and the messenger comes back after stopping Bac (yes I'm a poet), then maybe everything will be ok. If the "storage" process is affected while I'm on Bac because the messenger is on smoko, but comes back after ceasing Bac, that's not great but I can live with it. However if any of the processes are affected after stopping Bac then that would make me reconsider what I'm doing.

I think I will go back to a smaller maintenance dose (currently I'm on about 200mg a day) and see if things improve, I will report back

Have a good weekend

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will be forthcoming and say I stopped using BAC when I hit 30mg because I didn't let myself adapt to it.  I use Naltrexone, Campral and sleep with Mirtazapine (an antidepressant).  I use B100 and B1 supplement with C1000 time delayed.  Baclofen scared me so much even titrating to 30mg in 5 days that I stopped remembering what I needed to remember.  But I'm not a normal person; I remember everything, always and have visual and abstract reasoning abilities that are at 97 and 99 percentile.  So what Bac did was stop that for me.  I couldn't remember words or put things together that are huge ways of expressing things for me.  So as with anything it really depends on who you are and what your brain chemistry is and the way your memories are put together.  I'm not a doctor by any means I just know what happened to me.  When and if I stop NAL and Campral I will try Baclofen again but for now I am just stocking it until I see the Addictions Specialist Doctor in July to see what I should do.  These drugs I take are very expensive here so I'm going to look at alternatives.  BAC is cheap by comparison.

I won't mention the other substances that happened earlier in life though they may be very relevant.  Taboo?   MDMA?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally don't want to be banned from this site or another site mywayout and another so I try to limit what I say here or there.  I have read the FAQs and haven't seen any mention but these sites are more recovery than what you or I have done.  Maybe in the "My Story" section it might fit better here or on the other site I just mentioned.  But MDMA does alter you for life especially at the amount I have used over the length of time.  I'm not exactly sure what you have done.  Personally, coke and AL just ruined my MDMA buzz so it kept me AL free for a long time but I could kill them with AL after a couple days.  Which led me to AL addiction.  I was offered all sorts of pharma but nothing got me "high".  I'm at the theory that we are addicts when we use stuff to immediately alter our consciousness.  Or within 20 minutes.

If we have breached rules please let us know without penalty and PM us; we are exploring something maybe a little off the bar.  The forums are saving my life at the moment and thank you for that.

I think this suits the thread and would like to pursue it further if nobody objects.  MDMA alters serotonin to an extreme that I don't know how to measure.  So serotonin depletion can be temporarily suspended or made to be an illusion with dopamine from another substance.  Albeit temporarily.  I think we are all searching for balance.  So when we discuss brain chemistry its relevant because I've put like 20,000mg into me over 5 years; 15 years ago.  Cocaine was of little worry as I never really liked it but it did teach me how to drink 40oz or more in a night.  Potassium is a huge chem in the brain if you are playing with serotonin drugs.

I am not a doctor.  I just know where I am at.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

MDMA is a wonder drug that baffles me.  It makes me not drink at all!!!  Though I know I'm completely useless while i'm giving a girl a massage or talking about empathy.  So we need to figure out the balance.

40oz hard to 0 for 24 hours with no pain.  What the heck is this drug.  I know its Schedule 1 but why?  I can see it used in therapy big time; maybe not recreationally or as daily use.

Edited by empyr3al
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mark I take 300 mg and have for a year.  I recently tried titrating down but I'm under a lot of stress right now so it didn't go well.  I started thinking far too much about AL although I would have liked to reduce.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The above discussion re MDMA seems to me to be very relevant to this forum - after all, it's called "The end of my addiction", doesn't specify addiction to what. I don't think you're breaking any rules. Most of us have been desperate to reduce our alcohol intake, but I recognise in myself a number of potential cross-addictions eg OTC codeine preparations, which I used in high doses along with alcohol for many years.

No experience with MDMA myself, but I think you should be free to discuss it here & I'm interested in your experiences of it, especially how you think it affected your cognitive function.

@Mom2JTx3 I have also tried adrafinil & modafinil.  Adrafinil is converted to modafinil in the liver, so no big difference except adrafinil apparently can be bought legally as a "supplement" whereas modafinil is a prescription only med so has similar restrictions to baclofen, ie you have to search out a pharmacy that will take credit cards & doesn't ask for a prescription.  I use them occasionally to boost my motivation for boring tasks eg I have just had my appraisal & the day of tedious & pointless paperwork involved required a dose of modafinil to get me through it!  I felt in the early days of bac it lifted the fatigue & brain fog.  No real excuse for using it now, & the fact it messes with sleep limits frequency of use.  

Edited by Molly78
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, now that we're all being honest... and I agree drug-use is very relevant to memory.

I lived in London for 3 years and took ecstasy (on average) every second weekend. It was great! Didn't drink too much, a moderate amount, mostly beer and we were always travelling and doing stuff to distract us. Only did coke a handful of times; it never really floated by boat.

Summary of my intake / memory - maybe an exercise in futility due to lack of objectivity - but what the hell :

0 - 15 years: Virtuous and innocent, oh happy day

16 - 26: binge drinking on weekends (laddish behaviour was somewhat encouraged in South Africa in the 90s), drunk but able to remember most of the night - memory at this stage was patchy, as expected, but when I was sober it was pretty good, let's say 9 / 10 as a guesstimate. Exception for vocabulary, eloquence and conversation which I always had a flair for :-P

27 - 30: London, drugs, moderate drink - patchy memory, I remember some parties, not others, remember most sober events but not everything, I figured it was par for the course for my lifestyle, 8/10

30 - 40: Australia, death in the family, few drugs apart from cannabis. Drinking more - on and off, then daily for a while but only in the evenings, but still on and off (trying to be healthy); close to my 40s increasingly unable to stop. Memory still par for the course, maybe a 7. Lateral thinking suffered a little, had a few "left a pot on the stove" events, a few times I forgot to attend a social event that was in the calendar, nothing out of the ordinary. I think I noticed in my 30s that events from a few weeks ago would be foggy unless someone reminded me. Still pretty good considering - 7 / 10. 

The last year I started taking baclofen, went from 20mg to 40 to 60, etc. started to notice small things then, but nothing that worried me. It was nice to feel a bit "out of it" to make up for not being drunk. Getting to 140 I started being unable to recall words and forget what I was doing, not all the time but enough to start getting worried. I guess this is what people describe as "brain fog"? Approaching 200 these things happen daily. I've been that dosage for 3 weeks. Haven't drunk for a month - great. Will definitely go down now and hopefully things get better. Haven't been working - doing a lot of bike riding - which is fine because you just stare at the scenery and don't have to think much. But in the last week I've been trying to catch up with friends, have been absent-minded, slurring words a little, forgetting what I had done during the day, unable to describe some straightforward things like the way I had removed some window locks from the window frames in my house. Some awkward silences. Definitely not me. Some concerned comments from friends afterwards. I'm not that bad all the time - depends on the time of day, but when I'm bad it's a 3 / 10.

That was a lovely trip down memory lane... but steering back to the original question - do these effects last after stopping Bac? We've been talking about the negative scenarios, but to play God's advocate for a second - what if being on Bac is similar to being drunk? They both affect GABA-associated neurotransmitters. They both affect the hippocampus which plays a role in creating new memories. After alcohol abuse, yes there may be damage, but let's assume from anecdotal evidence of drunks throughout history that it won't stop us from living a happy life. Maybe the same can be said of Baclofen - I hope so but there's a lack of anecdotal evidence for me to be sure.

Anyone out there who has ceased baclofen use after a high dosage? You're probably not on this forum anymore :-P

Maybe things will settle down for me once I reduce the dosage. I will report back, cheers

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are people around who sometimes post who have been on high dose bac then titrated down & remained sober.  But I can't recall anyone mentioning the sort of problems you are describing @Mark apart from @empyr3al who noticed the same sort of thing very early on.

So it could be the bac, & @Baclofenman gave some case histories which would support that as an unusual SE. Your symptoms are quite striking as you describe them above. If your memory does not improve as you come down I would suggest you see a doctor to investigate other possible causes rather then assume you have damaged your brain with bac.  I think @empyr3al's symptoms improved fairly quickly once he stopped bac?

Keep us posted.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After re-reading that post I feel like I trivialised the drug use and implied it had little effect. However I should add, that's when quite heavy anxiety started for me and moderate depression. And many days zonked out my head after pills where I couldn't function or string a coherent thought together. But after a period of time off I was (almost) as good as new and I feel like I got off fairly lightly in terms of memory, compared to what i'm experiencing now.

But enough about past behaviour, I agree with the latest comment that I should titrate down and wait and see. I am obviously obsessing over this right now and I will defer to the experience and wisdom of this wonderful forum and do some more reading of other people's experiences while I wait. Thanks everyone for spending time to discuss with me, it is very therapeutic, sorry for being a drama queen and love to all! I will send an update at some point.

Also I meant to link to this, the last sentence is interesting: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8026729

and I know... I need to stop pretending I'm a neuroscientist !!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Molly78 Yes, when I stopped BAC things went back to aka normal quite quickly.  @Markyour time line is similar to mine; very similar.  We have done very similar things.

I think I added BAC to a cocktail of stuff that was already working.  Except for the Mirt nothing really did anything pronounced as they don't seem to be addictive (Campral, Naltrexone).  Mirtazapine I could see being abused and difficult to come off of.  It's used off-label for AL abuse. I use a varying amount 15-45mg per night and sometimes not at all.  I know how it affects me and how much I sleep.  Now if I take a full 45 the next day is perfectly fine and no cravings other than I slept a lot.  Feel no reason to drink at all.  There are some papers done about it but as I said it comes with the penalty that you sleep too long and it also causes brain fog in the morning.  For me roughly 20 minutes.

On the topic of MDMA.  It changed me into something completely different and has had long last effects.  Not negative per say.  Actually, it changed me from an introvert to an extrovert and made me confident and unafraid to speak about things that were trauma in my life.  It has the highest potential of anything ever I have used to kill PTSD dead in its tracks.  I'm aware of the damage from the trauma but it doesn't actually hurt the same way it did in the past.  MDMA was used a lot for talk therapy for me with nonprofessionals.  Actually, one of my close friends was in university for neuroscience at the time and played with it.  I won't advocate a Schedule 1 illegal drug but its shown in the relatively small number of legal clinical test sessions what it can do.  I will not glorify it as it was the best drug ever I have done when I wasn't using AL or any other substance concurrently.  It on its own is a crazy substance that has dramatic effects on cognition but not necessarily negative.  I used it recreationally in environments many have never seen but @Mark likely has.  It was a drug in the rave culture I was involved in was meant to be used alone without cross-substance use.  Believe me, it made me not interested in drinking at all and if I did have a drink it would negate the positive effects quickly.  

Cognition wise while on it, its a really bad drug to try to operate heavy machinery, etc.  The extreme serotonin release that happens leaves you a little brain dead for a couple days after.  So its way to powerful to be used on a daily basis and if used that way you don't experience the revelations associated with it.  I think long term use has left me at a point where I feel that other people don't understand me.  So i feel alone and often misunderstood.  I also read things quickly and empathize way too much.  AL nulls that which is why I started abusing AL.

AL has anyone noticed that it actually increases your abilities temporarily while you are increasing your amount?  Almost an adrenaline boost.  AL rarely made me feel stupid until I mixed it with other substances.  Now that is from the cognitive perception side of me; not necessarily the perspective of me from the other side by other people.  Every drunk thinks they are in control but appearances are deceiving.  I guess I could say MDMA is the ultimate in honesty drugs if you got legitimate stuff.  AL makes you honest but you make mistakes that are hard so it is playing with other things.  Actually scary.

So MDMA works on serotonin and depression whereas what I understand of AL it is messing with GABA-A's.  Bac is hitting GABA-B.

@Molly78 I totally agree with the cross addiction aspects.  Dimenhydrinate which is common for motion sickness and even allergies can be abused and I did so because it has sleep properties in the right dose.  I'm off that but I can see its appeal.  Its actually used in withdrawal therapy from AL so you can have an appetite.  Benzo's also tend to be a replacement.  I have them in my drawer but they are used in emergency situations if I lapse.

@Mark thats funny, "I need to stop pretending I'm a neuroscientist".  I don't think we are.  I think we are talking about how these things affected us and we know enough about what brain chems we are playing with.  Believe me you that neuroscientists don't even understand things.  We are essentially test subjects.  Actually one of the biggest MDMA dealers I dealt with was from a pharma company.  We were guinea pigs essentially.

Again I will say "I am not a doctor".  I just played with some crazy drugs that pharma was curious about but are illegal.

 

 

Edited by empyr3al
Figured out how to mention/tag people.
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's all good!!  We can create the ultimate thread to fix all our problems... that way I don't have to have so many tabs open, my attention span is buggered anyway  :-P

:D:D:D:D:D:D

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay then. :)   http://www.maps.org/research/mdma

I can say I did not drink while using MDMA and if I did it destroyed it.  I was an AL or weekend binge drinker before I figured it out.  It replaced ALC in a week for years.  I may have used way to much of it that it caused some problems.  Like I said the MDMA I got was from a second hand party from a pharma company (Or that was the claim).  I've used some bad stuff known as ecstasy in the past but MDMA is totally different.  I swear to god its a wonder drug.  Way different than BAC or Mirt or Campral or NAL.  Now i cannot even if I tried find a real safe source.  There is way to much fentanyl going on in Canada that I will not even experiment with illicit drugs.  But it shows so much promise and changed me so much that I would not dismiss it from therapeutic drugs.  One of the lucky ones to have used clean MDMA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have lots of problems with memory, from minute to minute, it seems. When I cook, I might add something to a dish then a minute later I can't remember if I added it or not.   Also,  I have to read things several times over to comprehend, it's hard to write (it's why I don't post more often), it's also hard to prioritize stuff I need to do- and it's really hard to break a task into steps and do it in any organized way. It's hard to think ahead.  I do think some of this is from baclofen (90mg),  also the combo of bac and gabapentin, some is Post Acute Withdrawl Syndrome and some  my age (56).  I have had lots of SEs, most notably depression, since starting bac.  It stopped my drinking in its tracks though, like nothing else ever has.  I'm trying to manage the side effects.  For me, it's worth the mental fogginess if it stops me from drinking.   I'm a stay at home mother so not a lot of intellectual thought required, the mental fog is actually preferable.  

I've never heard of mirtazapine being used for alcoholism. Or MDMA.   I've been reading a lot about ketamine being used to battle alcoholism.  So much on the horizon.

A belated welome @empyr3al and @Mark

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Alice22 ketamine scares me more than any of the drugs we have mentioned so far.  We used to call it CK1 (Cocaine and Ketamine) used together makes you feel like you are a foot off the ground.  It's incredible but it does nothing for AF.  Maybe because you are so confused.  I don't suggest it but its a weird and incredible feeling.   Without cocaine and you took too much K and you are in the AKA "hole".  Time makes no sense.  TV makes no sense.  Nothing makes any sense.  Language makes no sense.  Nothing makes sense at all!  It's not a drug I ever imagine I would touch again ever in my life even if prescribed.  For me it is wrong.  Its a disassociative and used as a local anesthetic.   As its name describes its actually used to euthanize cats and other animals.  It actually reminds me of what trying BAC did to me but not as pronounced.

The problem with MDMA is that it got schedule 1'd and its hard to do research with even though it changed me entirely more than anything I have ever touched.  Profound changes that you cannot measure by any description. Changes that are so important to me, I don't know what to say about it. Its not like not feeling like you are AF; but you are in an entirely different spot.  No need to drink.  Its a timed thing; not an addiction per say, but for some it is because ecstasy is adulterated and not real.  I recommend not taking it until its regulated because there are extreme dangers associated with it or what's mixed into it that make it not legit.

Bac made me lose specific instant memories like you describe; which i require for my profession.  Bac frightened me but I will use it when i cannot afford $500 or more a month I get in meds.   I haven't actually calculated the complete total cost recently.  Likely close to $1000 everything included.

Mirtazapine did not do that.  It does not make me forget or get over emotional.  It makes me sleepy. Unlike symptoms for me like trintellix, Cipralex, etc or other anti depressants and other SSRI or SNRI's which made me see things that didn't exsist or overly emotional to the point I would do crazy things.  Its based on something different.  I maybe unique but I think that we all are.  What we try do is important.  I can make complex dishes again.  I make Thai and Indian dishes again.  Things that require over 20+ timed ingredients.   Its not what I do as a job; but something I take pride in as a hobby.  I do something way more risky for a living so I take these with extreme caution.  I stop them instantly if something is going wrong.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirtazapine

@Alice22 depression is a serious thing.  I deal with anxiety and Mirt has been a saviour unless I want to take Benzo's which suck.  Mirtazapine is not marketed because there is little money in it once the patent is over.  The reason we/they are testing Mirtazapine is that it can coupled being an alcohol reduction tool or anxiety as well as dealing with depression.  Mirtazapine is used off-label for AL and it's highly effective imho.   The forum here or on Mywayout has some documents.  I will share more about Mirtazapine if you are curious.  If you have access to medical documents without restriction then you could read about it.

Edited by empyr3al
When is Grammarly too much.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@empyr3al I'm interested in mirtazapine as a treatment for alcoholism.  I take quetiapine for sleep but sounds like I should swap to mirtazapine.  A bit wary of both as they are really difficult to get off, trying to keep quetiapine to minimal dose of 25 mg.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will have to look up quetiapine.  Mirt has some interesting studies.  I don't believe from my first hand experience that it solves addiction.  I think in correlation with some other meds it works wonders if you are a depressed or anxious person.  Its funny because it can been seen in some papers that it can affect AL also.  Gotta look into quetiapine.

Mirt with depression document.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3516621/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh its Seroquel.  Wow I don't know what to say about that.  Thats a totally different animal.  Trazadone is also a wierd animal also but its more similar to Mirtazapine than what I know of Seroquel.  Mirt seems to make me indifferent to AL.  How does Seroquil (quetiapine) affect you?  Really interested.  Were you cross addicted before using it or AF?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was already AF when I started using quetiapine for sleep - like so many people, I used to drink myself to sleep in the evening & once I stopped doing that had a hard job getting to sleep at all!

I'm not addicted to it - 25 mg is a tiny dose, being careful not to increase it for that reason.  It's simply a hypnotic.  Doesn't have any other effect on me AFAIK.

Tried trazodone.  Gave me bad tinnitus & no sleep, though didn't try increasing the dose as I didn't like it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I take a very tiny dose,  3.75mg or less, of  mirtazipine most nights.  Initially, it was prescribed for depression. Started at 7.5 went up to 30 hoping it would work but at higher doses I felt worse, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, felt really down. 

I was on trazodone 50 mg on and off for the past 20 years then stopped when I started mirtazipine.  Had no withdrawal but likely because they're similar.  It helped my sleep a lot for years. 

I've taken seroquel before for just a very short time. It knocked me out but I was useless the next day.  It's the only thing that works for a friend of mine, though. 

I recently bought some cannabinoid oil because I'm trying to smoke less MJ. It didn't do much for anxiety or appetite, but it was great for sleep.  

@empyr3al Thanks for all the feedback.  I would  never try ketamine on my own and I know its reputation as a party drug, horse tranquilizer, etc. but an old friend of my husband's is having great luck with it and depression.  She does this under the care of a doctor. The study I read about was done in London.  Something about using ketamine to "erase" drinking memories.  It's very preliminary but I like to read about any  potential treatments. 

I did read some about mirtazipine and AL. Very interesting.  As I said I was on it for over two months, I had high hopes for it, because like you  I've tried all the SSRIs, SNRIs, trintellix (when is was still brintellix), tricyclics. It was prescribed by an addictions psychiatrist and he never mentioned its effect on AL. I'll try to remember to ask him about it.  He probably has no idea since he'd never heard of baclofen for alcoholism either. I sent him some articles and now he prescribes It for me. 

Now, I'm on lamotrigine, 100 mgs. plus 900mg gabapentin, 90 baclofen and the micro dose of mirtazipine.  I feel ok right now, the crushing depression has lifted and I'm not drinking but I feel like I still have a long way to go. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Team,

These comments on sleep are interesting, I did have a lot of trouble with sleep after AF but the bac seems to have taken care of it for now. I will keep these notes for future reference though.

Hope you have a happy end of the week and weekend :D

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...